Roy you really are a pill. A little tact or diplomacy plus a sense of humour would not go astray. By the way, I have no connection with Mr Fawkes or Rita. Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: <roy.stockdill@btinternet.com> To: <YORKSGEN@rootsweb.com>; "Rita Effnert" <kessie3@online.de> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] The name Fawkes and the gerrman connection > From: Rita Effnert <kessie3@online.de> > > >> By sheer coincidence I came in touch with someone here in Germany >> who's name is Faux (my Faukes etc connection is in Lincs) and he told >> me >> about him belonging to a group of others who are also researching >> this name here in Germany....they all went to York a few years ago and >> visited the Archives there to find out about their illustrious >> ancestor and they were very helpful. This man I know has a grandson who >> had >> become interested in it as well so I got him a book from England all >> about Guy and he gave a talk about it, in english, in front of his >> school and he received a prize for his efforts....... (no bon-fire >> night here) Rita> > > Believe me, I have no wish to be unkind, Rita, but how I wish I had a > fiver for everyone who > thinks that because they share the same surname with someone famous in > history, then they > must either be descended from or related to that person! > > Firstly, it is a matter of extreme conjecture among historians and > genealogists as to whether > Guy (or Guido) Fawkes ever married and/or had children. It has been > claimed that he > married a woman called MARIA PULLEYN at Scotton about 1590 and that they > had two > children. I would refer you to a very interesting website at > http://web.archive.org/web/20110617064347/http://www.gunpowder-plot.org/news/1998_04/g > fmp.htm > > This contains an article written by one David Herber for the Gunpowder > Plot Society, which is > well worth reading in full because it gives the pros and cons of the > matter and Herber comes > to the conclusion that he found little or no evidence for the claim that > Fawkes married Maria > Pulleyn. The IGI entries are not backed up by authentic sources. > > In general terms, as I said at the start, it is very often a case of > wishful thinking on the part of > gullible people who assume they must be related to a famous historical > figure because they > share the same, or a similar, surname. The number of people who think they > must be > descended from Admiral Horatio Nelson purely because they're called Nelson > probably runs > into four figures! > > What is the evidence of your German friends that they have any connections > to the infamous > Guy Fawkes at all? The chances of there being descended from him are > remote in the > extreme (even if the marriage story is true) and, therefore, it is quite > incorrect to describe him > as an "illustrious ancestor". It is possible there might be a connection > with other members of > the Fawkes family; however, it is by no means certain that everyone of the > Fawkes name > (and the many variants) are related. The name may have arisen > simultaneously in various > parts of the country. All we know for certain about Guy Fawkes is that he > was born in 1570 > and baptised at St Michael-le-Belfry in York and, of course, when he died. > > I suggest you check one or two surname dictionaries such as Reaney & > Wilson and Hanks & > Hodges. Both have full accounts of the origins of the Fawkes name and > numerous variants. I > am sorry if I am pricking a balloon but your German friend really ought to > be more aware of > how we carry out research. > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer > Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/ > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > > > ..... > Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; > www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; > www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5248 - Release Date: 09/04/12 >

From: "Margaret Gill" <gillmarg@iinet.net.au> > Roy you really are a pill. A little tact or diplomacy plus a sense > of humour would not go astray. By the way, I have no connection with Mr Fawkes > or Rita.> Those who know me well will know that this is about as diplomatic and tactful as I get! I could have been considerably more critical, but I simply explained coherently and in careful terms why I doubt that anyone can be descended from Guy Fawkes because there is no evidence anyone has yet found that I am aware of - in official records, that is - that he ever married or had children. There are apparently IGI entries but according to the article by David Herber, to which I drew attention, these are dubious because there are no sources given (like so many patron-submitted IGI records) that can be authenticated. One anomaly Herber picked up was that while the name of Maria Pulleyn (whose actual first name was Mary) was Latinised, as it would have been in 1590, the name of Guy Fawkes was entered in the modern spelling of the surname, whereas his baptismal record called him FAUXE. I was perfectly genuine when I wrote that I would very much like to know how Rita's German friend can claim to be a descendant (and she used the term "ancestor") of Guy Fawkes or even connected to the Faux/Fauxe family. Maybe his researches have turned up something that everyone else has missed! However, if this is not the case, do you seriously suggest we should let someone go on pursuing an illusive belief without at least questioning it? Isn't speculative debate and questioning the researches of others all part of family history? If not, what are any of us here for? -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/ "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE