Nick I would disagree that Parish Registers are always better than BT's.  I have found some info in BTs that are not always in the PRs and I have also found info in PRs that are not always in BTs.  You also have to remember that in some cases the only records in a parish will be the BTs.  In the Parish of Acklam, the Parish Registers don't start til 1716, but there are BTs before that date.  Granted, going back further, the records are not complete.  The farther back you go, the harder it is to read anything.  Take a look at the Genuki website for Yorkshire as Colin Blanshard Withers has given info on every parish in Yorkshire as to the types of records that are available and where.  http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ You mention that the Parish Registers gave you the names of the grandparents.  However, don't credit that to "Parish Registers" and think that all Parish Registers give that type of info.  The info you gleaned from that is because it is part of the Dade Registers.  Not all parishes had Dade Registers and they were only up to a certain period of time.  I agree that the info from Dade Registers is fantastic especially when families may be living in a different parish. Janet From: Nick Higton via <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 5:25 AM Subject: [YORKSGEN] Dade Registers and Bishop's Transcripts - BARNBY of York I've been doing some research into the BARNBY family of York, initially using Find My Past's collection of York Parish Registers, and have found that in many cases it is the Bishop's Transcript images and their FMP transcriptions that have been added to the site, when the Parish Registers will almost certainly contain more information. I first realised this when I cross-checked on Ancestry for the baptism of Samuel BARNBY, on 09 August 1785 at St Sampson's, and found two transcription entries. The first, from a collection entitled "England, Select Births and Christenings 1538-1975" gave his birth and baptism dates plus his father's fore- and surname, and his mother's forename. This information is identical to that on FMP. The second, from a collection entitled "England & Wales Christening Records 1530-1906" gave the same information, plus his mother's maiden name, and the names of both paternal grandfathers. The latter is obviously invaluable when trying to confirm that you have found the correct ancestors for someone. I'm assuming that this is a transcription of the PR, so I now need to find and check a microfilm or digital copy of the original register. In other instances, I've found that the transcription omits vital information that is clearly visible on the original register image. It's obvious, but I'd recommend always to check the original Parish Register, if it still exists, rather than relying on transcriptions or BTs, both of which are prone to transcription errors or just omitting information, as the process of producing an Ancestry or FMP transcription involves a number of stages, at any of which errors/omissions can be introduced: 1. The clergyman writes information in the Parish Register, relying upon often illiterate parents, and sometimes without the diligence that might be expected 2. At the year end, he or another parish officer has the boring, administrative job of compiling the Bishop's Transcripts, so he may decide to copy just the minimum information needed, without necessarily being too bothered about accuracy, and also by possibly having to interpret someone else's scrawled handwriting 3. Years later, another person tries to read the BT (more scrawled handwriting, and possibly a microfilm copy of dubious quality!), and copy the information into a format suitable for being printed. This may be typed, or be yet another manuscript 4. The typesetter at the printers prepares the blocks ready for printing, and a proof of this is checked for accuracy, but maybe by yet another person 5. Ancestry, FMP etc.  type their transcript (or maybe use an Optical Character Recognition program) into a computer to put online, possibly using the PR or BT, but possibly instead using the printed transcript 6. This information is put online to be lapped up by a sometimes un-sceptical audience Someone could probably work out the statistical probability of the information at step 6 being identical to that at step 1, but I bet it is low enough not to use it as the basis for, potentially, years of wasted effort researching the wrong family, for wont of reading the original parish registers. Don't get me wrong, I'm a great fan of the online information provided by Ancestry, FMP etc., as it saves a lot of time and effort if used correctly. But, as was said of the IGI years ago, it is best used as a finding aid, and cannot be relied upon to be accurate.     ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If information is in the BTs that is not in the PRs, it begs a question as to reliability, as the former was supposed to be extracted from the latter. Of course, it’s probable that the writer of the BTs (at the end of the year to which the PRs refer) knew the family concerned, but there could also be a suspicion of re-writing history, for example, to legitimise an illegitimate birth, or even create some claim to an estate. The motives of the writer at the time need to be considered. Does anyone know where there is a list of the parishes that used Dade and Barrington Registers? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 26 January 2015 18:25 To: Nick Higton; [email protected] Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] Dade Registers and Bishop's Transcripts - BARNBY of York Nick I would disagree that Parish Registers are always better than BT's. I have found some info in BTs that are not always in the PRs and I have also found info in PRs that are not always in BTs. You also have to remember that in some cases the only records in a parish will be the BTs. In the Parish of Acklam, the Parish Registers don't start til 1716, but there are BTs before that date. Granted, going back further, the records are not complete. The farther back you go, the harder it is to read anything. Take a look at the Genuki website for Yorkshire as Colin Blanshard Withers has given info on every parish in Yorkshire as to the types of records that are available and where. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ You mention that the Parish Registers gave you the names of the grandparents. However, don't credit that to "Parish Registers" and think that all Parish Registers give that type of info. The info you gleaned from that is because it is part of the Dade Registers. Not all parishes had Dade Registers and they were only up to a certain period of time. I agree that the info from Dade Registers is fantastic especially when families may be living in a different parish. Janet _____ From: Nick Higton via <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 5:25 AM Subject: [YORKSGEN] Dade Registers and Bishop's Transcripts - BARNBY of York I've been doing some research into the BARNBY family of York, initially using Find My Past's collection of York Parish Registers, and have found that in many cases it is the Bishop's Transcript images and their FMP transcriptions that have been added to the site, when the Parish Registers will almost certainly contain more information. I first realised this when I cross-checked on Ancestry for the baptism of Samuel BARNBY, on 09 August 1785 at St Sampson's, and found two transcription entries. The first, from a collection entitled "England, Select Births and Christenings 1538-1975" gave his birth and baptism dates plus his father's fore- and surname, and his mother's forename. This information is identical to that on FMP. The second, from a collection entitled "England & Wales Christening Records 1530-1906" gave the same information, plus his mother's maiden name, and the names of both paternal grandfathers. The latter is obviously invaluable when trying to confirm that you have found the correct ancestors for someone. I'm assuming that this is a transcription of the PR, so I now need to find and check a microfilm or digital copy of the original register. In other instances, I've found that the transcription omits vital information that is clearly visible on the original register image. It's obvious, but I'd recommend always to check the original Parish Register, if it still exists, rather than relying on transcriptions or BTs, both of which are prone to transcription errors or just omitting information, as the process of producing an Ancestry or FMP transcription involves a number of stages, at any of which errors/omissions can be introduced: 1. The clergyman writes information in the Parish Register, relying upon often illiterate parents, and sometimes without the diligence that might be expected 2. At the year end, he or another parish officer has the boring, administrative job of compiling the Bishop's Transcripts, so he may decide to copy just the minimum information needed, without necessarily being too bothered about accuracy, and also by possibly having to interpret someone else's scrawled handwriting 3. Years later, another person tries to read the BT (more scrawled handwriting, and possibly a microfilm copy of dubious quality!), and copy the information into a format suitable for being printed. This may be typed, or be yet another manuscript 4. The typesetter at the printers prepares the blocks ready for printing, and a proof of this is checked for accuracy, but maybe by yet another person 5. Ancestry, FMP etc. type their transcript (or maybe use an Optical Character Recognition program) into a computer to put online, possibly using the PR or BT, but possibly instead using the printed transcript 6. This information is put online to be lapped up by a sometimes un-sceptical audience Someone could probably work out the statistical probability of the information at step 6 being identical to that at step 1, but I bet it is low enough not to use it as the basis for, potentially, years of wasted effort researching the wrong family, for wont of reading the original parish registers. Don't get me wrong, I'm a great fan of the online information provided by Ancestry, FMP etc., as it saves a lot of time and effort if used correctly. But, as was said of the IGI years ago, it is best used as a finding aid, and cannot be relied upon to be accurate. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message