Hi Pam Can you give some examples Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >I have come across various listings for people giving numbers instead of a name for the location. > Presumably this is some sort of code and I think I have heard of it before, but would like to know > where I can find a key or directory, so I can work out where these places are. > > Thanks in anticipation. > Pam

From: CHRISTINE WILLOTT <christine.willott@btopenworld.com> > Dear Audrey, > > I am willing to stand corrected by someone from Yorkshire, but > Matlock is in Derbyshire. On streetmap.co.uk there is not another > Matlock in the UK. > > What you are attempting is a mammoth task and given that lots of our > ancestors could not read and write let alone spell, nigh on > impossible.> To be fair to Audrey, if you look at the "History" section of her website, she does say that John Bowne (1627-1695) left Lime Tree Farm at Matlock, Derbyshire, to migrate to Boston in 1649. However, I am in agreement with you that she has assumed a mammoth task which, as I have said in a previous post, does not seem to me to be helped by the fact that the project doesn't seem to take into account alternative variant spellings of the name. Audrey may perhaps tell me differently but I cannot see a mention of other versions of the surname which, as you point out, is vital given that many - no, make that most - of our ancestors were illiterate. I am also interested to know how she derives the name BOWNE from the time of William the Conqueror (dare, I say it, as so many of our American cousins seem determined to do!) which she does in reference to John Bowne. Surname dictionaries - which are at best speculative in my opinion - show the surname as being a variant of De Bohun and there was indeed a De Bohun in the Domesday Book of 1086. However, this does not prove all the links in between, which can only be accepted by documentary evidence. And, as Audrey says she is seeking the earliest common ancestor, then clearly the links haven't been proved. There could be other derivations for the Bownes which do not connect them to the De Bohuns. Indeed, there could even have been an ancestor who changed his name for some reason - it happened all the time. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Just a thought about this issue. At one time in the US people were using the states post office abbreviations, such as New York and they were using NY. Others might use a post office Zip code. I'm wondering if this is what is happening. Sometime ago in the US the National Genealogical Society were advising everyone to completely spell out the state name and not use any numerical codes that might change. Pat Crimmel

Lin, Jane, I'd like to hear a legal opinion. But the step daughter is not a blood relative and provided the first wife had died and the step daughter was not a minor, there'd probably be no problems. If you want something complicated have a look at this. It's been around for a while, but some may not have seen it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEHu2sAy5hc Peter

Audrey There is a large "collection" of BOWNs in Derbyshire especially in the Matlock/Wirksworth area. I came across one today on this website www.wirksworth.org.uk/X576.htm which may be of interest. In fact John Palmers site www.wirksworth.org.uk is probably full of them. I would recommend that you take a look. Fifty years ago I worked alongside one Alexander "Sandy" Bown who came from Matlock. We both worked for Firth Derihon Stampings in Darley Dale at that time. Cheers Frank Turner ----- Original Message ----- From: "CHRISTINE WILLOTT" <christine.willott@btopenworld.com> To: "Audrey Bowne" <acbowne1@yahoo.com>; <yorksgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:26 AM Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] BOWNE in Yorkshire Dear Audrey, I am willing to stand corrected by someone from Yorkshire, but Matlock is in Derbyshire. On streetmap.co.uk there is not another Matlock in the UK. What you are attempting is a mammoth task and given that lots of our ancestors could not read and write let alone spell, nigh on impossible. Chris ________________________________ From: Audrey Bowne <acbowne1@yahoo.com> To: "yorksgen@rootsweb.com" <yorksgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, 23 May 2012, 0:43 Subject: [YORKSGEN] BOWNE in Yorkshire Thanks for all the suggestions Most BOWNEs are related 2 BOWNEs came to the USA in 1635. I am trying to find their common ancestor. They were from Matlock and Yorkshire I have 200 BOWNEs born England before 1595 and I am trying to find how they are related. My project (15 Years) has been gathering info on the BOWNE family. I have 5,000 BOWNEs and 250,000 allied families related to a BOWNE born all years and all countries I will help with Seattle info Thanks Audrey Bowne Seattle State of Washington USA acbowne1@yahoo.com check out the BOWNE family website http://www.bownehouse.org Flushing NY built 1666 ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Audrey, You have to work back from known to unknown. List down your parents and grandparents and look for possible arrivals from UK. You might find hundreds of BOWNE entries on all the normal sites, but without working through them methodically, you will have no idea which are yours and which are just namesakes. Try searching for Bowne on FreeBMD. There's hundreds. And not only in Yorkshire If you get stuck, post specifics to the list. Peter Booth (Sydney)

For info on the BOWN spelling dbown100@hotmail.com dbown100@tripod.com   I think he lives in Sommerset England I think his name is David Bown Audrey       Thanks for the help It is hard to document any info before the 1st England census 1841 ? On this side of the pond their is very little printed info on the 1600s and 1700s I was told that the original spelling was DeBohun. The only alternative spelling I have been using is BOWN. Someone in England is collecting all the BOWN info  and has a website. I think his name is David Bown. I will send his website address later. I have the  BOWNE spelling started in 1330. Where would you find more info on Williuam the conqueror     I read that alot of people are related to CHARLAMAIN/E  spelling ?   Thanks Audrey Bowne     ________________________________ From: "roy.stockdill@btinternet.com" <roy.stockdill@btinternet.com> To: CHRISTINE WILLOTT <christine.willott@btopenworld.com>; yorksgen <yorksgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:04 AM Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] FH Hi Christine Of course, I completely agree with you as a fellow serious researcher. You have probably noted that I took Audrey to task slightly over one or two things in her messages and on her website. It will be interesting to see if she responds. As I mentioned in one of my messages to the list, she claims on her website that her Bownes can trace their ancestry back to the time of William the Conqueror. I fear this is a common phenomenon with our American cousins, who seem considerably more concerned about it than we are and there is a good deal of wishful thinking going on. What I suspect she has done is fall into the old trap of looking up surname definitions, noting that Bowne is a variant of Bohun or De Bohun (which can indeed be dated to the Conqueror's time since the name appears in the Domesday Book), put two and two together and made five! As I said, I very much doubt that the historical, documentary evidence is there to fill in all the gaps and links in between the Norman Conquest and the period her ancestor arrived in America. If she had the proof, why would she be asking for help on the Yorksgen list? As you and I both know, speculation is all very well but it doesn't begin to stand up without the evidence. Best wishes Roy ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for the help It is hard to document any info before the 1st England census 1841 ? On this side of the pond their is very little printed info on the 1600s and 1700s I was told that the original spelling was DeBohun. The only alternative spelling I have been using is BOWN. Someone in England is collecting all the BOWN info  and has a website. I think his name is David Bown. I will send his website address later. I have the  BOWNE spelling started in 1330. Where would you find more info on Williuam the conqueror     I read that alot of people are related to CHARLAMAIN/E  spelling ?   Thanks Audrey Bowne     ________________________________ From: "roy.stockdill@btinternet.com" <roy.stockdill@btinternet.com> To: CHRISTINE WILLOTT <christine.willott@btopenworld.com>; yorksgen <yorksgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:04 AM Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] FH Hi Christine Of course, I completely agree with you as a fellow serious researcher. You have probably noted that I took Audrey to task slightly over one or two things in her messages and on her website. It will be interesting to see if she responds. As I mentioned in one of my messages to the list, she claims on her website that her Bownes can trace their ancestry back to the time of William the Conqueror. I fear this is a common phenomenon with our American cousins, who seem considerably more concerned about it than we are and there is a good deal of wishful thinking going on. What I suspect she has done is fall into the old trap of looking up surname definitions, noting that Bowne is a variant of Bohun or De Bohun (which can indeed be dated to the Conqueror's time since the name appears in the Domesday Book), put two and two together and made five! As I said, I very much doubt that the historical, documentary evidence is there to fill in all the gaps and links in between the Norman Conquest and the period her ancestor arrived in America. If she had the proof, why would she be asking for help on the Yorksgen list? As you and I both know, speculation is all very well but it doesn't begin to stand up without the evidence. Best wishes Roy ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Audrey, I am willing to stand corrected by someone from Yorkshire, but Matlock is in Derbyshire. On streetmap.co.uk there is not another Matlock in the UK. What you are attempting is a mammoth task and given that lots of our ancestors could not read and write let alone spell, nigh on impossible. Chris ________________________________ From: Audrey Bowne <acbowne1@yahoo.com> To: "yorksgen@rootsweb.com" <yorksgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, 23 May 2012, 0:43 Subject: [YORKSGEN] BOWNE in Yorkshire Thanks for all the suggestions Most BOWNEs are related 2 BOWNEs came to the USA in 1635. I am trying to find their common ancestor. They were from Matlock and Yorkshire I have 200 BOWNEs born England before 1595 and I am trying to find how they are related. My project (15 Years) has been gathering info on the BOWNE family. I have 5,000 BOWNEs and 250,000 allied families related to a BOWNE born all years and all countries I will help with Seattle info Thanks Audrey Bowne Seattle State of Washington USA acbowne1@yahoo.com   check out the BOWNE family website   http://www.bownehouse.org Flushing NY built 1666 ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

From: Audrey Bowne <acbowne1@yahoo.com> > Thanks for all the suggestions > Most BOWNEs are related > 2 BOWNEs came to the USA in 1635. I am trying to find their common > ancestor. They were from Matlock and Yorkshire > I have 200 BOWNEs born England before 1595 and I am trying to find > how they are related. > My project (15 Years) has been gathering info on the BOWNE family. I > have 5,000 BOWNEs and 250,000 allied families related to a BOWNE > born all years and all countries< With the greatest respect, it might have been better if you had told us this in the first place, Audrey. Your initial query came across as that of a beginner - well, it did to me anyway, and I endeavoured to answer you with that in mind. It does help if you give the fullest information first time round! > check out the BOWNE family website >   > http://www.bownehouse.org < Very impressive. However, though of course I haven't had the time to search your website thoroughly, nowhere did I see any mention of variants. Are you restricting your researches to just one spelling of the name only? In my humble opinion, as a member of the Guild of One-Name Studies and formerly editor for 10 years of the Journal of One-Name Studies, this is somewhat restrictive. As I am sure you know, the name originated from Bohun in La Manche, France. Variants include BOON, BOONE, BOWN, BONE and BOHUN. Who knows, you may be distantly related to the legendary frontiersman Daniel Boone (1734-1820), whose grandfather was a weaver from Exter who migrated to Philadelphia circa 1717. And, of course, the name De BOHUN is prominent in the aristocracy. One Humfridus de Bohun appears in the Domesday Book, William the Conqueror's great survey of England in 1086, and I note you say on your website that the "Bownes of England could trace their ancestry back to William the Conqueror's time and were connected to many titled and powerful families". Do you have the actual documentary evidence that John Bowne, who migrated to Boston from Matlock in 1649 was a direct descendant of the de Bohuns? From 1086 to 1627, when you say John was born, is a very long time and there would have been a great many links in between to prove. I am not questioning your researches, you understand, just being curious because one hears so many times how someone is descended from William the Conqueror or from that time but very often the evidence isn't there and it's pure speculation or wishful thinking! -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

From: Audrey Bowne <acbowne1@yahoo.com> > I would like info on any BOWNE in Yorkshire born(all years) married > died in Yorkshire esp census and marriage records > I would like to find a living BOWNE residing in Yorkshire > thanks > I will help with Seattle state of Washington USA > Audrey Bowne > Seattle < Not asking a lot, are you? Are you doing a one-name study or do you really want information on a particular Bowne family, in which case I suggest you post the details? You can surely examine the censuses yourself online and also look at all the Bowne entries in Yorkshire at FreeBMD, but this could take some considerable time. With the greatest respect, you can do this yourself as easily as anyone else can. Just to show my willingness, I can tell you that in the 1911 censuses there were 11 Bownes in Yorkshire, 13 in 1901, 15 in 1891 and none at all in 1881. Check FreeBMD for all Bowne entries in Yorkshire; however, you would need to enter all three Ridings - which, as I said, could be a considerable research exercise. As for living Bownes in Yorkshire today, I can tell you that my (now well out-of-date) CD of the UK electoral registers for 2003 shows entries in Scarborough, Barnsley and Doncaster. Again, you can check these out for yourself by going to: http://www.thephonebook.bt.com and also checking the current electoral registers at: http://www.192.com/people/electoral-roll/?gkw=192+com+electoral+roll But if, as I suspect, you are seeking a particular family, then why not say so? I would also point out that the name BOWNE lies itself wide open to possible mistranscriptions of the surname BROWNE. Then you are into deep waters! Good luck. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hi Audrey A simple search on Ancestry for BOWNE and keyword Yorkshire unsurprisingly finds many hits I would suggest either subscribing or visiting an LDS FHS who may have access to one or both of Ancestry or Findmypast If you can narrow it down a little to places and or years perhaps we can help more but on such sparse information I would say there are just to many to pass on Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) I would like info on any BOWNE in Yorkshire born(all years) married died in Yorkshire esp census and marriage records I would like to find a living BOWNE residing in Yorkshire thanks I will help with Seattle state of Washington USA Audrey Bowne Seattle

Mmm- do you have to put a loop in the family tree if drawing that one out?! In my Woodall family my 5x great uncle married his wife's sister after his wife died (went to Switzerland to marry.) That was in 1891 - not sure if that was illegal or not. My 3x great grandfather married a widow - her late husband was her new mother in law's great nephew - born to mother in law's brother's daughter. Another loop? Daft hobby! Jane Chasing W(h)eldrake/drick - anywhere, anytime, any variation -----Original Message----- From: Lin Duke Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 4:22 PM To: yorksgen@rootsweb.com Subject: [YORKSGEN] Probibited marriages? In my research for a friend I've come across a man who married his step-daughter (in the 1860's) which I am assuming wasn't allowed under law. Am I correct? He had children by his first wife, and then by his step daughter - so their children were also his step grandchildren. He died and his widow remarried. Her daughter then married her new husband's son (by a previous marriage) - so they were step siblings. And I thought my family was complicated! Lin A true friend walks in when the world walks out ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Heres one at least 1841 England Census about Benjmin Rodford Name: Benjmin Rodford Age: 16 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825 Gender: Male Where born: Leicestershire, England Civil parish: Whitwick Hundred: West Goscote County/Island: Leicestershire Country: England Registration district: Ashby de la Zouch Sub-registration district: Whitwick Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 596 Book: 18 Folio: 44 Page Number: 3 Household Members: Name Age William Worthen 20 Benjmin Rodford 16 HO107; Piece: 596; Book: 18; Civil Parish: Whitwick; County: Leicestershire; Enumeration District: 13; Folio: 44; Page: 3; Line: 3; GSU roll: 438746. Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > I'm wondering if any Miss Marples or Hercules Poirots on the list could try and find Benjamin > RADFORD (born circa 1821 in Thringstone, Leicester) on 1841, 1851 or 1861 censuses? > > He was married to Elizabeth (born circa 1825 in Walsall) and she is a lodger (married) on 1861 > census but no sign of Benjamin. > > I have him on 1871, 1881 and 1891 censuses (he died in 1896). > > > RADFORD has been enumerated as RATFORD and Thringstone caused the enumerator a headache but in > 1891 he was given as born in Hucknall, Notts. > > Any help appreciated as I've tried everything (I think anyway!) to find him. > > > Lin

Thanks for all the suggestions Most BOWNEs are related 2 BOWNEs came to the USA in 1635. I am trying to find their common ancestor. They were from Matlock and Yorkshire I have 200 BOWNEs born England before 1595 and I am trying to find how they are related. My project (15 Years) has been gathering info on the BOWNE family. I have 5,000 BOWNEs and 250,000 allied families related to a BOWNE born all years and all countries I will help with Seattle info Thanks Audrey Bowne Seattle State of Washington USA acbowne1@yahoo.com   check out the BOWNE family website   http://www.bownehouse.org Flushing NY built 1666

I'm wondering if any Miss Marples or Hercules Poirots on the list could try and find Benjamin RADFORD (born circa 1821 in Thringstone, Leicester) on 1841, 1851 or 1861 censuses? He was married to Elizabeth (born circa 1825 in Walsall) and she is a lodger (married) on 1861 census but no sign of Benjamin. I have him on 1871, 1881 and 1891 censuses (he died in 1896). RADFORD has been enumerated as RATFORD and Thringstone caused the enumerator a headache but in 1891 he was given as born in Hucknall, Notts. Any help appreciated as I've tried everything (I think anyway!) to find him. Lin A true friend walks in when the world walks out

In my research for a friend I've come across a man who married his step-daughter (in the 1860's) which I am assuming wasn't allowed under law. Am I correct? He had children by his first wife, and then by his step daughter - so their children were also his step grandchildren. He died and his widow remarried. Her daughter then married her new husband's son (by a previous marriage) - so they were step siblings. And I thought my family was complicated! Lin A true friend walks in when the world walks out

Please can everyone from the UK who is coming to Yorksgen and anyone else in Yorkshire please bring for us some Tesco plastic carrier bags. We are going to make Ebberston style bunting - ask Brenda Green for the explanation! Chris

I would like info on any BOWNE in Yorkshire born(all years) married died in Yorkshire esp census and marriage records I would like to find a living BOWNE residing in Yorkshire thanks I will help with Seattle state of Washington USA Audrey Bowne Seattle acbowne1@yahoo.com

My mystery deepens when I unpacked a case of photos today. Among them are some dura type (on glass photos) and on the back of one is Nurse Jackson 1854 Died 1860 (this is the alleged date of birth of Alice below - did she die in child birth - but also Alice was a Nurse + midwife) then two other names Alfred 1854 (son I am guessing) and I think it is Shirley 1857 (dau?) then To Edith May 9 1907 There is another that could have been the same woman at a younger age or could be a daughter and another of three women, the centre one, I believe is the said nurse and of the other two, one dress in dark clothing like her maybe a sister and the other in white maybe a younger sister or niece. There is also a male - is it the Alfred above or her husband? On all these there is a familial likeness. Two other photos are definitely different. One of them is a Marrett as it matches another photo I have and the other may be a Richards as it fits into the families that are connected and a likeness to a descendant. The Marrett photos are possibly John c 1820-1892 Modbury and or Samuel c 1859-1929 Dry Creek/Gilles Plains. Also a photo of a group of ladies in white uniform with a cross at the front of the veil and a sigh Modbury Circle top and bottom of a circle with a cross in the centre. Standing slightly separate as you would expect a matron is a woman who looks very much like the Nurse Jackson above. Bob DNA Projects I2*, ISOGG new I2b, I2c HG & Tyler Surname and ISOGG YTree A Fair Deal for Members of the Defence and Ex Service Community. From: Bob May <tpibob44@bigpond.com> To: yorksgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, 20 May 2012, 12:29 Subject: [YORKSGEN] Nursing records Hi all Any hints of where to look for records for a Nursing Sister married in SA 26 Apr 1881 St Luke Church Adelaide South Australia She was born in Yorkshire c 1860 and according to the information on her death certificate she was in Australia from c 1874 so would estimate she was 14 when she moved. With or without her family? Also because of her age she trained in Australia, but could she have been in service to a Doctor who emigrated and she went as well? Her name Alice (Ann on some certificates and not on others) Jackson father John Some hint of a family story that she went with her brother searching for their father, so suspect mother dies around this time. No real help from census records to date as the likely ones by name can all be found by marriage or 1881 census still in UK. Bob DNA Projects I2*, ISOGG new I2b, I2c HG & Tyler Surname and ISOGG YTree A Fair Deal for Members of the Defence and Ex Service Community. ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message