The word pupura suggests that the bruise could be seen. To the lay person you can have no visable signs of a brain haemorrhage. (I won't go into GCS scores here!) It could have been massive trauma resulting in something like a ruptured spleen. The superficial trauma would have caused  bruises. Chris ________________________________ From: Magdalena GORRELL GUIMARAENS <m.gorrell@aiic.net> To: CHRISTINE WILLOTT <christine.willott@btopenworld.com> Cc: "yorksgen@rootsweb.com" <yorksgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2012, 12:09 Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] YORKSGEN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 289 Hi, We can but guess.  Could he have had some kind of fall or altercation that resulted in a massive bruise on his head - very obvious - hiding an underlying, fatal brain haemmorhage? Magdalena On 20 June 2012 11:55, CHRISTINE WILLOTT <christine.willott@btopenworld.com> wrote: Hi > > >I too was confused. Magdalena is right to say puerperal haemorrhage is a post partum haemorrhage and so only affects women after the placenta is delivered  but I thought this cause of death related to the man. In which case the technical term for bruises is pupura. It is difficult to say at this length of time exactly what the type of bleed would have been to have caused the death. Whatever caused the bleed it must have been substantial. > > >Chris > AIIC Mail - A service provided by the International Association of Conference Interpreters --- http://aiic.net

Hi, We can but guess. Could he have had some kind of fall or altercation that resulted in a massive bruise on his head - very obvious - hiding an underlying, fatal brain haemmorhage? Magdalena On 20 June 2012 11:55, CHRISTINE WILLOTT <christine.willott@btopenworld.com>wrote: > Hi > > I too was confused. Magdalena is right to say puerperal haemorrhage is a > post partum haemorrhage and so only affects women after the placenta > is delivered but I thought this cause of death related to the man. In > which case the technical term for bruises is pupura. It is difficult to say > at this length of time exactly what the type of bleed would have been to > have caused the death. Whatever caused the bleed it must have been > substantial. > > Chris > -- AIIC Mail - A service provided by the International Association of Conference Interpreters --- http://aiic.net <http://aiic.net%20>

Hi Ann, There are several trees on Ancestry with both this Thomas and the Thomas that Darryl found. However the tree owners have not linked the two Thomas's. Why not as they appear to be connected. Would it be that Thomas senior was not a gardener as per the marriage but a blacksmith? Could Thomas senior have semi-retired by the marriage and become a gardener? Or do the tree owners know something else? Contacting these people might be a good idea. Christine -----Original Message----- From: SBS Engineers Research Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 4:44 AM To: YORKSGEN@rootsweb.com Subject: [YORKSGEN] BRIGGS One Name Study Good morning/night list My GG Grandfather Thomas Briggs was a blacksmith. He married Maria Richards 22yrs old (born Devon) 08 May 1854 in Sheerness, Kent. Three months later he suddenly died on 09 August 1854 aged 24yrs. Cause of death Purpura/Haemorrhage. The marriage certificate lists both of Maria's parents but only Thomas's father...also named Thomas (a gardener). Mother may have been deceased and not having her name makes it hard to find Thomas (Jnr) birth records etc. I have spent years looking for him in Kent to no avail. So now I'm looking in Kent. I have posted this message to the Kent email list - no answers or advice thus far. Every time I find a Thomas Briggs born about 1830 - he is still alive in the 1861 census - therefore NOT mine. Regards Ann Spiro baskett@one-name.org briggs@one-name.org http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Baskett Blacksmiths & Related Occupations http://blacksmiths.mygenwebs.com ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi I too was confused. Magdalena is right to say puerperal haemorrhage is a post partum haemorrhage and so only affects women after the placenta is delivered  but I thought this cause of death related to the man. In which case the technical term for bruises is pupura. It is difficult to say at this length of time exactly what the type of bleed would have been to have caused the death. Whatever caused the bleed it must have been substantial. Chris ________________________________ From: Magdalena GORRELL GUIMARAENS <m.gorrell@aiic.net> To: yorksgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2012, 11:17 Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] YORKSGEN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 289 Regarding the following posting, at first glance there appear to be a couple of oddities here.  First, it would appear that the person who died is Mary, if the cause of death is anything to go on, as puerperal haemmorrhage, also portpartum haemmorrhage, is an affectation of women following childbirth and if the bleeding cannot be controlled, leads to death.  But then, if Maria was 22 years at her marriage three months earlier, she would hardly be 24 years old at the time of death, so whose obit is this? Magdalena > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:44:15 +0800 > From: "SBS Engineers Research" <research@sbse.net.au> > Subject: [YORKSGEN] BRIGGS One Name Study > To: <YORKSGEN@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: >        <8475C7A7646CE441B5720074EA50C0863F2B81@refairs1.RefAir.local> > Content-Type: text/plain;      charset="iso-8859-1" > > Good morning/night list > > My GG Grandfather Thomas Briggs was a blacksmith. He married Maria > Richards 22yrs old (born Devon) 08 May 1854 in Sheerness, Kent. Three > months later he suddenly died on 09 August 1854 aged 24yrs.  Cause of death > Purpura/Haemorrhage. > The marriage certificate lists both of Maria's parents but only Thomas's > father...also named Thomas (a gardener). Mother may have been deceased and > not having her name makes it hard to find Thomas (Jnr) birth records etc. >  I have spent years looking for him in Kent to no avail.  So now I'm > looking in Kent.  I have posted this message to the Kent email list - no > answers or advice thus far. > > Every time I find a Thomas Briggs born about 1830  - he is still alive in > the 1861 census - therefore NOT mine. > > Regards > Ann Spiro > baskett@one-name.org > briggs@one-name.org > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Baskett > Blacksmiths & Related Occupations  http://blacksmiths.mygenwebs.com? > > > > > -- AIIC Mail - A service provided by the International Association of Conference Interpreters --- http://aiic.net <http://aiic.net%20> ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good morning/night list My GG Grandfather Thomas Briggs was a blacksmith. He married Maria Richards 22yrs old (born Devon) 08 May 1854 in Sheerness, Kent. Three months later he suddenly died on 09 August 1854 aged 24yrs. Cause of death Purpura/Haemorrhage. The marriage certificate lists both of Maria's parents but only Thomas's father...also named Thomas (a gardener). Mother may have been deceased and not having her name makes it hard to find Thomas (Jnr) birth records etc. I have spent years looking for him in Kent to no avail. So now I'm looking in Kent. I have posted this message to the Kent email list - no answers or advice thus far. Every time I find a Thomas Briggs born about 1830 - he is still alive in the 1861 census - therefore NOT mine. Regards Ann Spiro baskett@one-name.org briggs@one-name.org http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Baskett Blacksmiths & Related Occupations http://blacksmiths.mygenwebs.com 

Regarding the following posting, at first glance there appear to be a couple of oddities here. First, it would appear that the person who died is Mary, if the cause of death is anything to go on, as puerperal haemmorrhage, also portpartum haemmorrhage, is an affectation of women following childbirth and if the bleeding cannot be controlled, leads to death. But then, if Maria was 22 years at her marriage three months earlier, she would hardly be 24 years old at the time of death, so whose obit is this? Magdalena > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 11:44:15 +0800 > From: "SBS Engineers Research" <research@sbse.net.au> > Subject: [YORKSGEN] BRIGGS One Name Study > To: <YORKSGEN@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <8475C7A7646CE441B5720074EA50C0863F2B81@refairs1.RefAir.local> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Good morning/night list > > My GG Grandfather Thomas Briggs was a blacksmith. He married Maria > Richards 22yrs old (born Devon) 08 May 1854 in Sheerness, Kent. Three > months later he suddenly died on 09 August 1854 aged 24yrs. Cause of death > Purpura/Haemorrhage. > The marriage certificate lists both of Maria's parents but only Thomas's > father...also named Thomas (a gardener). Mother may have been deceased and > not having her name makes it hard to find Thomas (Jnr) birth records etc. > I have spent years looking for him in Kent to no avail. So now I'm > looking in Kent. I have posted this message to the Kent email list - no > answers or advice thus far. > > Every time I find a Thomas Briggs born about 1830 - he is still alive in > the 1861 census - therefore NOT mine. > > Regards > Ann Spiro > baskett@one-name.org > briggs@one-name.org > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Baskett > Blacksmiths & Related Occupations http://blacksmiths.mygenwebs.com? > > > > > -- AIIC Mail - A service provided by the International Association of Conference Interpreters --- http://aiic.net <http://aiic.net%20>

Spotted this on the Guild of One Name Studies forum thought it might be useful to this list: http://www.hullhistorycentre.org.uk/discover/pdf/LOST_TRAWLERMEN.pdf Details provided by the Hull History Centre - well worth a visit. Jackie Next Yorkshire Training Day http://yourfairladies.ning.com/events/family-historian-beginners-improvers

Dear all, Here is the latest update to the surnames database. Thank you everyone who has updated their email addresses - do remember that there is no form for this, you just have to send me an email to ykssurnames@yahoo.com with both your old and your new email address and I'll do the rest. No need to list your surnames. Whilst on this subject, a few deletions because of persistently bouncing email addresses: Dale E. Yeadon (1) dyeadon@hotmail.com Kathryn M. Donovan (7) kdonovan@verizon.net David Greenwood (4) dpg_144@yahoo.co.uk Mike Appleyard (2) mikeapp@blueyonder.co.uk And now the good news - 14 new submissions. Please go to the URL given below for instructions on how to access them and/or submit surnames of your own. GUEST HUSCROFT KASSELL LAUGHTON MEGSON NICHOLSON RAPER, RENFORTH SMITHSON TRATTLES, TURNER WIGGLESWORTH, WOMACK, WRIGHT Best wishes to all, Magdalena -- *MAGDALENA GORRELL GUIMARAENS* YKS SURNAMES LIST Administrator ykssurnames@yahoo.com http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/YKSlist/ -- AIIC Mail - A service provided by the International Association of Conference Interpreters --- http://aiic.net <http://aiic.net%20>

thank you so much - that really clears up the mystery! I think you're also right about the two brothers going to Canada. thanks again! Jane -----Original Message----- From: Lin Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 9:45 PM To: yorksgen@rootsweb.com ; Jane Woodall Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] Query about registering a birth Hi Jane I think I have solved your mystery. Harold S SPROSON birth reg, as you say in 1911 Chorlton, According to British Columbia Death Index 1872-1990, Harold Stott SPROSON died 8 Sep 1878, New Westminster, BC, Canada aged 67. So with that information - (see my earlier e-mail) - I believe that Bertha's maiden name was STOTT but she married under her previous surname HALL. There is a marriage of Albert HALL to Bertha STOTT 1903 Dec Q, Prestwich. If Bertha was still married to Albert this may be why she put 7 years as being married (ie to Albert). Harold sailed for Canada on 14 Apr 1930 aged 19 - details of his father tally with 1911 census. Lin On 15/06/2012 22:01, Jane Woodall wrote: > Hi folks > > Just wondering – when registering a birth c 1910-1915 – did the parent > have to produce a marriage certificate to prove the child was not > illegitimate? > > I’m trying to help a friend trace her family tree in Manchester. Her > great grandfather Arthur Sproson is on the 1911 census with ‘wife’ Bertha > and baby Harold saying they had been married a year. Harold was registered > in 1910 as Hall, Bertha’s maiden name and the couple didn’t actually marry > until 1915. > > Bertha died in 1921 and Arthur remarried to Louisa Kilpatrick, who had an > illegitimate daughter Nora Kilpatrick around 1906. Arthur and Louisa soon > had a son Albert – and in addition to Harold and Louisa’s daughter, he had > two other half-siblings Ida and Arthur. The only ones I can find are Ida > and Arthur Sproson, 1912 and 1915 – mother’s maiden name Stott... but I > can’t find a Sproson –Stott marriage. There are two Stott women in > Prestwich in the 1911 census – one I can find a marriage for, the other, > Sybil, I can’t find a marriage for. > > As Arthur and Bertha didn’t marry till 1915, it is possible he left her > and had two children with the Stott lady... but am I right in thinking as > they were registered as Sproson the parents must have been married and > proved that when registering them? Or could Sybil?? Stott go along and > claim to be Mrs Sproson and register the two children under their father’s > name? > > Hope that makes sense""! > > thanks in anticipation > > Jane > > ..... > Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; > www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; > www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jane It's possible that Harold's brother Arthur W(illiam?) followed him to Canada as there is a death in the same index 16 Jun 1987, Mission, BC Canada, aged 72 Lin On 15/06/2012 22:01, Jane Woodall wrote: > Hi folks > > Just wondering – when registering a birth c 1910-1915 – did the parent have to produce a marriage certificate to prove the child was not illegitimate? > > I’m trying to help a friend trace her family tree in Manchester. Her great grandfather Arthur Sproson is on the 1911 census with ‘wife’ Bertha and baby Harold saying they had been married a year. Harold was registered in 1910 as Hall, Bertha’s maiden name and the couple didn’t actually marry until 1915. > > Bertha died in 1921 and Arthur remarried to Louisa Kilpatrick, who had an illegitimate daughter Nora Kilpatrick around 1906. Arthur and Louisa soon had a son Albert – and in addition to Harold and Louisa’s daughter, he had two other half-siblings Ida and Arthur. The only ones I can find are Ida and Arthur Sproson, 1912 and 1915 – mother’s maiden name Stott... but I can’t find a Sproson –Stott marriage. There are two Stott women in Prestwich in the 1911 census – one I can find a marriage for, the other, Sybil, I can’t find a marriage for. > > As Arthur and Bertha didn’t marry till 1915, it is possible he left her and had two children with the Stott lady... but am I right in thinking as they were registered as Sproson the parents must have been married and proved that when registering them? Or could Sybil?? Stott go along and claim to be Mrs Sproson and register the two children under their father’s name? > > Hope that makes sense""! > > thanks in anticipation > > Jane > > ..... > Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; > www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; > www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi again Jane Pressed send too quick. I meant to amend the mail to point out that you said that Harold was registered as HALL in 1910, yet Harold S SPROSON is clearly registered in Chorlton 1911. Mar Q Lin On 16/06/2012 21:45, Lin wrote: > Hi Jane > > I think I have solved your mystery. > > Harold S SPROSON birth reg, as you say in 1911 Chorlton, > > According to British Columbia Death Index 1872-1990, Harold Stott > SPROSON died 8 Sep 1878, New Westminster, BC, Canada aged 67. > > So with that information - (see my earlier e-mail) - I believe that > Bertha's maiden name was STOTT but she married under her previous > surname HALL. > > There is a marriage of Albert HALL to Bertha STOTT 1903 Dec Q, > Prestwich. If Bertha was still married to Albert this may be why she > put 7 years as being married (ie to Albert). > > Harold sailed for Canada on 14 Apr 1930 aged 19 - details of his > father tally with 1911 census. > > Lin > > On 15/06/2012 22:01, Jane Woodall wrote: >> Hi folks >> >> Just wondering – when registering a birth c 1910-1915 – did the >> parent have to produce a marriage certificate to prove the child was >> not illegitimate? >> >> I’m trying to help a friend trace her family tree in Manchester. Her >> great grandfather Arthur Sproson is on the 1911 census with ‘wife’ >> Bertha and baby Harold saying they had been married a year. Harold >> was registered in 1910 as Hall, Bertha’s maiden name and the couple >> didn’t actually marry until 1915. >> >> Bertha died in 1921 and Arthur remarried to Louisa Kilpatrick, who >> had an illegitimate daughter Nora Kilpatrick around 1906. Arthur and >> Louisa soon had a son Albert – and in addition to Harold and Louisa’s >> daughter, he had two other half-siblings Ida and Arthur. The only >> ones I can find are Ida and Arthur Sproson, 1912 and 1915 – mother’s >> maiden name Stott... but I can’t find a Sproson –Stott marriage. >> There are two Stott women in Prestwich in the 1911 census – one I can >> find a marriage for, the other, Sybil, I can’t find a marriage for. >> >> As Arthur and Bertha didn’t marry till 1915, it is possible he left >> her and had two children with the Stott lady... but am I right in >> thinking as they were registered as Sproson the parents must have >> been married and proved that when registering them? Or could Sybil?? >> Stott go along and claim to be Mrs Sproson and register the two >> children under their father’s name? >> >> Hope that makes sense""! >> >> thanks in anticipation >> >> Jane >> >> ..... >> Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; >> www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; >> www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Jane I think I have solved your mystery. Harold S SPROSON birth reg, as you say in 1911 Chorlton, According to British Columbia Death Index 1872-1990, Harold Stott SPROSON died 8 Sep 1878, New Westminster, BC, Canada aged 67. So with that information - (see my earlier e-mail) - I believe that Bertha's maiden name was STOTT but she married under her previous surname HALL. There is a marriage of Albert HALL to Bertha STOTT 1903 Dec Q, Prestwich. If Bertha was still married to Albert this may be why she put 7 years as being married (ie to Albert). Harold sailed for Canada on 14 Apr 1930 aged 19 - details of his father tally with 1911 census. Lin On 15/06/2012 22:01, Jane Woodall wrote: > Hi folks > > Just wondering – when registering a birth c 1910-1915 – did the parent have to produce a marriage certificate to prove the child was not illegitimate? > > I’m trying to help a friend trace her family tree in Manchester. Her great grandfather Arthur Sproson is on the 1911 census with ‘wife’ Bertha and baby Harold saying they had been married a year. Harold was registered in 1910 as Hall, Bertha’s maiden name and the couple didn’t actually marry until 1915. > > Bertha died in 1921 and Arthur remarried to Louisa Kilpatrick, who had an illegitimate daughter Nora Kilpatrick around 1906. Arthur and Louisa soon had a son Albert – and in addition to Harold and Louisa’s daughter, he had two other half-siblings Ida and Arthur. The only ones I can find are Ida and Arthur Sproson, 1912 and 1915 – mother’s maiden name Stott... but I can’t find a Sproson –Stott marriage. There are two Stott women in Prestwich in the 1911 census – one I can find a marriage for, the other, Sybil, I can’t find a marriage for. > > As Arthur and Bertha didn’t marry till 1915, it is possible he left her and had two children with the Stott lady... but am I right in thinking as they were registered as Sproson the parents must have been married and proved that when registering them? Or could Sybil?? Stott go along and claim to be Mrs Sproson and register the two children under their father’s name? > > Hope that makes sense""! > > thanks in anticipation > > Jane > > ..... > Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; > www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; > www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jane Have you considered that although STOTT might be her maiden surname, that she may have been married before - and would therefore be married using her married surname name? . Lin On 16/06/2012 09:42, Jane Woodall wrote: > Hi Nivard > > yes that's the family - sorry - am getting my Arthur's and Albert's mixed > up! > > thanks for clarity on the proof - I've suggested we get one of the birth > certificates to get the mum's name and will see if I can get back further > from that. > > Jane > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nivard Ovington > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 11:02 PM > To:yorksgen@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] Query about registering a birth > > Soon as posted that I found the marriage in 1915 > > Marriages Mar 1915 > Hall Bertha A Sproson Manchester 8d 339 > Spros[oe]n Albert R Hall Manchester 8d 339 > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > On 15/06/2012 22:58, Nivard Ovington wrote: >> Hi Jane >> >> I don't know at what point they introduced a stipulation that proof >> needed to be furnished but much later than the period in question >> (1960's?) >> >> Much would depend upon the Registrar and how good the parent(s) were at >> telling porkies :-) >> >> Now I am a tad confused as the only Harold SPROSON I can find with a >> mother Bertha has a father *Albert* >> >> Harold is 4 months old and the parents state they have been married *7* >> years >> >> Is this your family? they are in Chorlton just outside Manchester >> >> Next problem is I don't see a marriage for an Albert SPROSON to a Bertha >> OR a 1915 marriage between SPROSON& HALL >> >> Could you clarify please >> >> Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > ..... > Ancestors in Yorkshire?http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; > www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org;www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; > www.yorkshireparishregisters.com;www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ..... > Ancestors in Yorkshire?http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; > www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org;www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; > www.yorkshireparishregisters.com;www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email toYORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Nivard yes that's the family - sorry - am getting my Arthur's and Albert's mixed up! thanks for clarity on the proof - I've suggested we get one of the birth certificates to get the mum's name and will see if I can get back further from that. Jane -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 11:02 PM To: yorksgen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] Query about registering a birth Soon as posted that I found the marriage in 1915 Marriages Mar 1915 Hall Bertha A Sproson Manchester 8d 339 Spros[oe]n Albert R Hall Manchester 8d 339 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 15/06/2012 22:58, Nivard Ovington wrote: > Hi Jane > > I don't know at what point they introduced a stipulation that proof > needed to be furnished but much later than the period in question > (1960's?) > > Much would depend upon the Registrar and how good the parent(s) were at > telling porkies :-) > > Now I am a tad confused as the only Harold SPROSON I can find with a > mother Bertha has a father *Albert* > > Harold is 4 months old and the parents state they have been married *7* > years > > Is this your family? they are in Chorlton just outside Manchester > > Next problem is I don't see a marriage for an Albert SPROSON to a Bertha > OR a 1915 marriage between SPROSON & HALL > > Could you clarify please > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear all, You need to be aware that the parishes given in these maps may well be incorrect. They seem to follow the information given in the NIPR (National Index of Parish Registers) which assumes that if a register exists then it is for a parish. As a result of this many chapelries are given as parishes, for instance Muker, Hawes, Stalling Busk etc. Best wishes, Colin Hinson In the village of Blunham in Bedfordshire U.K. Webmaster for the Genuki Yorkshire pages: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ Old and Rare Yorkshire Books on searchable CDroms: http://www.YorkshireCDbooks.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At 08:01 15/06/2012, you wrote: >The Toronto Family History Soc. publish a weekly bulletin of most >interesting and helpful hints and small articles. > >This one I though might be of interest to you all. ( Especially newbies who >live far away from the UK and who may be not too familiar with the areas) > > > >Were You Aware . > >Parish Maps for England > >Alan Billing writes: "Bulletin readers may be interested in the useful maps >of English parishes at http://maps.familysearch.org/ , based upon parishes >of 1851 (and so including some "new" Victorian parishes split off from an >ancient parish). > > > >The viewer is first shown a county map of England. There is a search >window in which to enter a name (e.g. Southgate); it then lets you choose >from a list of possible choices (unless it is unique). In this case, there >are three entries, and the one I want is Southgate, Middlesex. It then >displays a plan view of the parish of Southgate, and additional parishes, >overlaying a Google map or satellite image if desired. A panel lets you >look at "Info" (basic parish information such as date range of parish >records), "Jurisdictions" (the relevant jurisdictions within which it falls >including county, civil registration district, probate court, diocese, poor >law union) and "Options" (see below). >

Hello all This is probably far too short notice for you, and I am sorry I should have mentioned this sooner. The London Group of Yorkshire Family History Societies has its quarterly meeting tomorrow, the 16th June, at the SOG in the City of London.  The speaker at this meeting is Frank Hardy, FSG, author of the SoG book My Ancestor was a Railway Worker. Subject: Tracing Railway Ancestors. Further details of the group and future meetings are on http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/FHS/ I will be there, and our very own Roy Stockdill will probably be there too!  You might like to come along and throw things at him, or shake his hand, depending on your point of view.......  Regards Janice Wood

Soon as posted that I found the marriage in 1915 Marriages Mar 1915 Hall Bertha A Sproson Manchester 8d 339 Spros[oe]n Albert R Hall Manchester 8d 339 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 15/06/2012 22:58, Nivard Ovington wrote: > Hi Jane > > I don't know at what point they introduced a stipulation that proof > needed to be furnished but much later than the period in question (1960's?) > > Much would depend upon the Registrar and how good the parent(s) were at > telling porkies :-) > > Now I am a tad confused as the only Harold SPROSON I can find with a > mother Bertha has a father *Albert* > > Harold is 4 months old and the parents state they have been married *7* > years > > Is this your family? they are in Chorlton just outside Manchester > > Next problem is I don't see a marriage for an Albert SPROSON to a Bertha > OR a 1915 marriage between SPROSON & HALL > > Could you clarify please > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Hi Jane I don't know at what point they introduced a stipulation that proof needed to be furnished but much later than the period in question (1960's?) Much would depend upon the Registrar and how good the parent(s) were at telling porkies :-) Now I am a tad confused as the only Harold SPROSON I can find with a mother Bertha has a father *Albert* Harold is 4 months old and the parents state they have been married *7* years Is this your family? they are in Chorlton just outside Manchester Next problem is I don't see a marriage for an Albert SPROSON to a Bertha OR a 1915 marriage between SPROSON & HALL Could you clarify please Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 15/06/2012 22:01, Jane Woodall wrote: > Hi folks > > Just wondering – when registering a birth c 1910-1915 – did the > parent have to produce a marriage certificate to prove the child was > not illegitimate? > > I’m trying to help a friend trace her family tree in Manchester. Her > great grandfather Arthur Sproson is on the 1911 census with ‘wife’ > Bertha and baby Harold saying they had been married a year. Harold > was registered in 1910 as Hall, Bertha’s maiden name and the couple > didn’t actually marry until 1915. > > Bertha died in 1921 and Arthur remarried to Louisa Kilpatrick, who > had an illegitimate daughter Nora Kilpatrick around 1906. Arthur and > Louisa soon had a son Albert – and in addition to Harold and Louisa’s > daughter, he had two other half-siblings Ida and Arthur. The only > ones I can find are Ida and Arthur Sproson, 1912 and 1915 – mother’s > maiden name Stott... but I can’t find a Sproson –Stott marriage. > There are two Stott women in Prestwich in the 1911 census – one I can > find a marriage for, the other, Sybil, I can’t find a marriage for. > > As Arthur and Bertha didn’t marry till 1915, it is possible he left > her and had two children with the Stott lady... but am I right in > thinking as they were registered as Sproson the parents must have > been married and proved that when registering them? Or could Sybil?? > Stott go along and claim to be Mrs Sproson and register the two > children under their father’s name? > > Hope that makes sense""! > > thanks in anticipation > > Jane

Hi folks Just wondering – when registering a birth c 1910-1915 – did the parent have to produce a marriage certificate to prove the child was not illegitimate? I’m trying to help a friend trace her family tree in Manchester. Her great grandfather Arthur Sproson is on the 1911 census with ‘wife’ Bertha and baby Harold saying they had been married a year. Harold was registered in 1910 as Hall, Bertha’s maiden name and the couple didn’t actually marry until 1915. Bertha died in 1921 and Arthur remarried to Louisa Kilpatrick, who had an illegitimate daughter Nora Kilpatrick around 1906. Arthur and Louisa soon had a son Albert – and in addition to Harold and Louisa’s daughter, he had two other half-siblings Ida and Arthur. The only ones I can find are Ida and Arthur Sproson, 1912 and 1915 – mother’s maiden name Stott... but I can’t find a Sproson –Stott marriage. There are two Stott women in Prestwich in the 1911 census – one I can find a marriage for, the other, Sybil, I can’t find a marriage for. As Arthur and Bertha didn’t marry till 1915, it is possible he left her and had two children with the Stott lady... but am I right in thinking as they were registered as Sproson the parents must have been married and proved that when registering them? Or could Sybil?? Stott go along and claim to be Mrs Sproson and register the two children under their father’s name? Hope that makes sense""! thanks in anticipation Jane

They bred them tough in those days (grin!) No, probably at 89 he wouldn't be working but I wondered if he had moved there with the family. Just had a look in the online papers for Robert Crosby - this is all I can find. Nothing for Thomas Beadle Crosby The Yorkshire Herald, and The York Herald (York, England), Wednesday, April 06, 1892 On March 31st at Borough Place, Church St, Whitby, Robert Crosby aged 47. The Yorkshire Herald, and The York Herald (York, England), Saturday, March 25, 1899 On the 15th inst at Shadforth, Mary Ann the beloved wife of Robert Crosby aged 59 years cheers Jane -----Original Message----- From: Margaret Taylor Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 11:53 PM To: Jane Woodall ; YORKSGEN@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] BLYTH/BEADLE & CROSBY Thanks Jane that is certainly a possibility but at the advanced age of 89 in 1851 it would seem unlikely that he would still be fishing or seafaring wouldn't you agree? Many of my PROCTOR, CARROTT branches have strayed north from Lincs & Essex to either Grimsby or Hull. Robert may have had Lincs connections in his family and gone a'visiting I suppose. Then again it might not be "my" chap at all. I don't feel like sending for a Death cert to verify since he is not a direct ancestor. Thanks for the imput Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane Woodall" <jane.woodall@virgin.net> To: "Margaret Taylor" <magmom@ruralwave.ca>; <YORKSGEN@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] BLYTH/BEADLE & CROSBY > Hi Margaret > > Caistor registration district at one time covered the port of Grimsby - on > the opposite bank of the River Humber to Hull so it's possible the family > had relocated to that side of the river and therefore moved from Yorkshire > to Lincolnshire. My ancestors did that, they were canal barge people in > lovely York - then moved to Hull and then across the river on which they > ran coal barges - thus forcing me to grow up in Grimsby for which I have > yet to forgive them. :-) > > Grimsby is nearer the mouth of the River Humber estuary and in the > 1850s/1860s they discovered the Dogger Bank fishing grounds which was > easier to sail to and from from Grimsby. The Barking fishing fleet moved > up from Essex (more ancestors of mine came with that) and in 1864 they > built a direct rail line to London so fish could be sent rapidly to > market. > > Have you checked online newspapers to see if there is anything? If not, I > will have a look for you over the weekend > > best wishes > > Jane > Chasing W(h)eldrake/drick - any variation, anywhere, any time