Morning All.  well I guess I was "the unfriendly one"...been called some things in my time but never unfriendly....blunt yes  - unfriendly never.   Hopefully some people on the list can vouch for my friendliness.  I am only too happy to help people wherever I can but need the correct, and preferably documented, info.  We are all busy and I was about to dash off to the local family history centre to do a days duty down there helping others but managed to find the time to type the email and check it before I hit send. Saying no more on the subject for fear of being misconstrued. ttfn Trish --- On Thu, 21/6/12, SBS Engineers Research <research@sbse.net.au> wrote: From: SBS Engineers Research <research@sbse.net.au> Subject: RE: [YORKSGEN] BRIGGS One Name Study To: "Trish Michael" <gosford17@yahoo.com.au>, YORKSGEN@rootsweb.com Received: Thursday, 21 June, 2012, 6:24 PM I think it's quite clear Trish that it was a typo... I am now looking in York. I didn't; realize this had such unfriendly people on it. Should have read ....... I have spent years looking for him in Kent to no avail.  So now I'm looking in YORK.  I have posted this message to the YORK email list - no answers or advice thus far......end.    A short kind email to me would have sorted out that I was in a rush and made a typo. We can all make mistakes when busy and trying to get an email off    Have a nice day. Ann in Perth WA. -----Original Message----- From: yorksgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:yorksgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Trish Michael Sent: Thursday, 21 June 2012 6:00 AM To: YORKSGEN@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] BRIGGS One Name Study Morning All.  Ann said:- ""I have spent years looking for him in Kent to no avail.  So now I'm looking in Kent."" Don't follow that statement at all!!!.....and exactly what do this have to do with Yorkshire??  Nothing has been mentioned about good Old Yorkshire yet. I've never had a certificate that stated mother and father....as in Maria's case...mores the pity.  Life could be much easier with that info. My two bobs worth. ttfn Trish ex Hull lass on central coast of NSW -----Original Message----- From: SBS Engineers Research Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 4:44 AM To: YORKSGEN@rootsweb.com Subject: [YORKSGEN] BRIGGS One Name Study Good morning/night list My GG Grandfather Thomas Briggs was a blacksmith. He married Maria Richards 22yrs old (born Devon) 08 May 1854 in Sheerness, Kent. Three months later he suddenly died on 09 August 1854 aged 24yrs.  Cause of death Purpura/Haemorrhage. The marriage certificate lists both of Maria's parents but only Thomas's father...also named Thomas (a gardener). Mother may have been deceased and not having her name makes it hard to find Thomas (Jnr) birth records etc.  I have spent years looking for him in Kent to no avail.  So now I'm looking in Kent.  I have posted this message to the Kent email list - no answers or advice thus far. Every time I find a Thomas Briggs born about 1830  - he is still alive in the 1861 census - therefore NOT mine. Regards Ann Spiro baskett@one-name.org briggs@one-name.org http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Baskett Blacksmiths & Related Occupations  http://blacksmiths.mygenwebs.com ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Roy.   Thank you very much for your helpful email.   Yes I have checked all the online resources and I've no idea as to the religion the Pennington family followed but when as Jane Garbutt she married G-G Grandpa Joseph Hepworth in 1840 it was in Howden parish church.Having taken a second look at the certificate I now see that her place of residence was Bilton! She did have a daughter Hannah to her first husband who was later married in York but I have been unable to tie down the right certificate from GRO. So I am now stuck with the surnames Garbutt and Pennington, hence my need for some expert help.   Regards.   Adrian.   ________________________________ From: "roy.stockdill@btinternet.com" <roy.stockdill@btinternet.com> To: "Yorksgen@rootsweb.com" <Yorksgen@rootsweb.com>; ADRIAN GARDNER1 <adriangardner1@btinternet.com> Sent: Thursday, 21 June 2012, 12:50 Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] Jane HEPWORH formerly GARBUTT nee PENNINGTON. From:              ADRIAN GARDNER1 <adriangardner1@btinternet.com> > I am finding it impossible to obtain records of my maternal > great-great grandmother who was born in Howden in abt 1801. > > I am thinking of paying a researcher to do this work for me and > wonder if anyone could suggest names for me? > > Thank you. > > Adrian.< Presumably you've checked the IGI at FamilySearch and any other online resources? It would help if you had some idea as to what religion her family followed, since she may not necessarily have been christened in the Church of England, also if you told us what you had done already to save duplication of effort. You might also tell us under what name she was born - I presume it was Pennington. The National Index of Parish Registers for the East Riding (published by the Society of Genealogists) lists under Howden three Anglican churches, a Roman Catholic one and 14 Nonconformist chapels, though many of the latter were not open at the appropriate time. If you e-mail me direct I will tell you where the records are because they are not all in the same place. The original registers of Howden St Peter's parish church are in the East Riding Archives at Beverley with the bishop's transcripts at the Borthwick Institute in York. As a professional researcher, I would have taken it on myself but I live in Hertfordshire a long way from Yorkshire, so am not able to visit record offices up there. If you buy one of the commercial family history magazines you will find that they often carry ads for researchers in Yorkshire. There are other professional researchers on this list who may volunteer their services. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

From: ADRIAN GARDNER1 <adriangardner1@btinternet.com> > I am finding it impossible to obtain records of my maternal > great-great grandmother who was born in Howden in abt 1801. > > I am thinking of paying a researcher to do this work for me and > wonder if anyone could suggest names for me? > > Thank you. > > Adrian.< Presumably you've checked the IGI at FamilySearch and any other online resources? It would help if you had some idea as to what religion her family followed, since she may not necessarily have been christened in the Church of England, also if you told us what you had done already to save duplication of effort. You might also tell us under what name she was born - I presume it was Pennington. The National Index of Parish Registers for the East Riding (published by the Society of Genealogists) lists under Howden three Anglican churches, a Roman Catholic one and 14 Nonconformist chapels, though many of the latter were not open at the appropriate time. If you e-mail me direct I will tell you where the records are because they are not all in the same place. The original registers of Howden St Peter's parish church are in the East Riding Archives at Beverley with the bishop's transcripts at the Borthwick Institute in York. As a professional researcher, I would have taken it on myself but I live in Hertfordshire a long way from Yorkshire, so am not able to visit record offices up there. If you buy one of the commercial family history magazines you will find that they often carry ads for researchers in Yorkshire. There are other professional researchers on this list who may volunteer their services. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hi Ann You have a fairly unusual document there then, despite seeing rather a lot of marriage certificates, I have yet to see a marriage which lists both parents so you have something rather unique there I wonder why they recorded both ? Has anyone else seen one I wonder? For the record I have not seen any reply to you that could be taken as anything other than helpful, perhaps you just misread the tone which can be difficult to convey sometimes in email Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 21/06/2012 09:47, SBS Engineers Research wrote: > Nivard and list > > Regarding my email where I stated Thomas Briggs marriage certificate > listed only his father's name (Thomas Briggs - gardener) but both > parents of his wife Maria Richards. Her parents Thomas and Maria "are" > both listed on the marriage certificate (I have it here with me). I have > followed her parents backward s to their marriage in Devon and forwards > through the birth of all their children, 2 born in Devon and the rest > born in Kent. > > I didn't realize my first email came across looking so mixed up; this > was the result of being busy and trying to send off an email in a hurry. > > > Have a nice day. > Ann > Perth WA

Hi Ann I have a number of BRIGGS in my tree. My grandfather, George Henry Briggs was born in 1862 at Ludford Magna, Lincolnshire. He was the illegitimate son of Mary Briggs who married Charles Markham in 1865. George Henry Briggs was henceforth known as George Henry Markham. I had a DNA test to see if it was possible Charles Markham was his father. He is not. His father was from Central Europe possibly Poland. My DNA details are on the DNA web site. If you don't have my Briggs I will send you the details, for your one name study, when I get home next week. I am currently touring Canada. I am in contact with a cousin, Roland Briggs, who lives in Lincolnshire Victor Quoting SBS Engineers Research <research@sbse.net.au>: > Hi Christine > > The trees you refer to are mine plus some 'cousins'. I have started > quite a few trees on ancestry.com which deal with different BRIGGS > families (some with a Thomas). I am in touch with their descendants > who have had more luck in finding their Briggs ancestor than I have. I > have indexed a few hundred Briggs marriages which I'll give to the Guild > of One Name Studies for their Guild Marriage Index and likewise for > Briggs PROBATES. > > A few months ago I started a dropbox and all information for BRIGGS goes > into it and I share it with all the other BRIGGS surname followers who > contact me. Likewise, they place any new info they find in the dropbox > and share it. > > Interestingly, my English cousins didn't know much at all about their > ancestors until I sent them what information I had. I had found some > old letters amongst my grandfathers belongs that went back to 1933-36. > Correspondence from the UK to my grandfather in Sydney, seems to have > stopped suddenly about 1936. For many years my mother tried to find > our English cousins and having letters returned with 'not here anymore' > on them. So approx 10years ago, I went to the Salvation Army missing > persons office here in Perth. She gave me a form to fill out listing all > known names and old addresses for the UK. Two weeks later, the Salvo's > called me and told me they had found my cousins and that I would be > hearing from them very soon. It was a wonderful feeling to find them. We > have met a few times and keep in touch monthly. We did get to swap some > old letters and photographs etc. > > I found out the reasons for the correspondence drying up between my > grandfather and his siblings. It was to do with divorce and bitterness > and also his brother who had been a stretcher bearer in the war, and > suffered with PTSD and cut himself off form others. > > All I want is to find the birth records (and mothers name /siblings if > any) of my Thomas Briggs. > > Kind regards > Ann Spiro > > Devon FHS member #15914; Kent FHS member#9397; Isle of Wight FHS > member#1551 > WAGS Inc Member#1288; Glasgow & West Scotland 7040; GOONS member#5101 > > > > > > > > > > ..... > Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; > www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; > www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello there. I am finding it impossible to obtain records of my maternal great-great grandmother who was born in Howden in abt 1801. I am thinking of paying a researcher to do this work for me and wonder if anyone could suggest names for me? Thank you. Adrian.

Hi Ann There's a Thomas Briggs blacksmith in the 1841 census - wife Phillis (sic) and son Thomas 14 - that's in Bexley. That's the only household in Kent I can find with a father and son Thomas. Dad could have changed profession from blacksmith to gardener and Thomas might have been older than 24 but either didn't know or shaved a couple of years off to impress his bride? I will email you the image, see if it helps. I looked in the newspapers online but they don't cover Kent - but there was nothing relating to a sudden death. If it had been an accident or something, it might have been reported nationally. As you know the specific date, someone on the Kent list or the local library might be willing to check the local newspaper and see if there was an inquest. If it was a sudden death then I think there should have been and inquests are generally reported in the newspapers. good luck Jane -----Original Message----- From: SBS Engineers Research Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 4:44 AM To: YORKSGEN@rootsweb.com Subject: [YORKSGEN] BRIGGS One Name Study Good morning/night list My GG Grandfather Thomas Briggs was a blacksmith. He married Maria Richards 22yrs old (born Devon) 08 May 1854 in Sheerness, Kent. Three months later he suddenly died on 09 August 1854 aged 24yrs. Cause of death Purpura/Haemorrhage. The marriage certificate lists both of Maria's parents but only Thomas's father...also named Thomas (a gardener). Mother may have been deceased and not having her name makes it hard to find Thomas (Jnr) birth records etc. I have spent years looking for him in Kent to no avail. So now I'm looking in Kent. I have posted this message to the Kent email list - no answers or advice thus far. Every time I find a Thomas Briggs born about 1830 - he is still alive in the 1861 census - therefore NOT mine. Regards Ann Spiro baskett@one-name.org briggs@one-name.org http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Baskett Blacksmiths & Related Occupations http://blacksmiths.mygenwebs.com ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

From: "Christine Benson" <christinebenson313@btinternet.com> > Hi Roy, > > Yes, I have seen one like that. It was in someone else's family and they > sent it to me in explanation of the statement "The mother is on the > marriage certificate" but could not explain where they meant. To the best of > my recollection the title "Father's name" had been crossed out and > replaced by > "Mother's name" and the name was written below. And yes, the child, > to the best of my belief was illegitimate.> Thanks for that, Christine. However, in the case I mentioned of the actor Duncan Preston what was virtually unique (not that there is any such phrase, of course - grammatically speaking, something is either unique or it isn't) was that on the marriage certificate of his grandparents BOTH parties gave their mothers' names instead of their fathers. I have never in 40 years of family history research seen another one like it. Maybe someone else has??? -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hi Roy, Yes, I have seen one like that. It was in someone else's family and they sent it to me in explanation of the statement "The mother is on the marriage certificate" but could not explain where they meant. To the best of my recollection the title "Father's name" had been crossed out and replaced by "Mother's name" and the name was written below. And yes, the child, to the best of my belief was illegitimate. Christine -----Original Message----- From: roy.stockdill@btinternet.com Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:41 PM To: yORKSGEN@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] YORKSGEN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 289 From: Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> > I suspect Ann meant *she* if she is looking for Thomas in 1861 > > How there came to be both parents on a marriage certificate would be > interesting to know though > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)> I have seen an equally interesting and unusual one! A few years ago I researched the ancestry of the Bradford-born actor Duncan Preston (well known for his roles with Victoria Wood and in Emmerdale) for my series on celebrity family trees in the former Pratical Family History magazine. Two of his grandparents were both illegitimate and their marriage certificate was the only one I've ever seen on which the names of the mothers are shown instead of the fathers (who were of course unknown). Has anyone else seen one like this? -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html

Hi, Thomas BRIGGS married Phyllis BAGSHAW 22nd June, 1817, Northfleet, Kent, England. Carolyn in Australia.

Re: 1851 census.................................. All living at 37 Alfred Place, Bexley, Kent. Carolyn in Australia.

Same family in 1851 at Bexley, Kent Thomas Briggs Head Married 44 Blacksmith Thomas Son Unmarried 23 d/o Eliza Dau d/o 12 ................. all born Bexley. Carolyn in Australia.

Could this be Thomas in the 1841 census? Kent. Bexley District 5 Thomas Briggs 45 Blacksmith Phillis 45 Mary Ann 20 Jane 15 Thomas 14 Eliza 2 Carolyn in Australia.

Morning All.  Ann said:- ""I have spent years looking for him in Kent to no avail.  So now I'm looking in Kent."" Don't follow that statement at all!!!.....and exactly what do this have to do with Yorkshire??  Nothing has been mentioned about good Old Yorkshire yet. I've never had a certificate that stated mother and father....as in Maria's case...mores the pity.  Life could be much easier with that info. My two bobs worth. ttfn Trish ex Hull lass on central coast of NSW -----Original Message----- From: SBS Engineers Research Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 4:44 AM To: YORKSGEN@rootsweb.com Subject: [YORKSGEN] BRIGGS One Name Study Good morning/night list My GG Grandfather Thomas Briggs was a blacksmith. He married Maria Richards 22yrs old (born Devon) 08 May 1854 in Sheerness, Kent. Three months later he suddenly died on 09 August 1854 aged 24yrs.  Cause of death Purpura/Haemorrhage. The marriage certificate lists both of Maria's parents but only Thomas's father...also named Thomas (a gardener). Mother may have been deceased and not having her name makes it hard to find Thomas (Jnr) birth records etc.  I have spent years looking for him in Kent to no avail.  So now I'm looking in Kent.  I have posted this message to the Kent email list - no answers or advice thus far. Every time I find a Thomas Briggs born about 1830  - he is still alive in the 1861 census - therefore NOT mine. Regards Ann Spiro baskett@one-name.org briggs@one-name.org http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Baskett Blacksmiths & Related Occupations  http://blacksmiths.mygenwebs.com ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

From: "Christine Benson" <christinebenson313@btinternet.com> > I think Ann meant that if she found a Thomas in the censuses and he > was alive in 1861 then he could not be her Thomas as she knew hers was > dead. > > One of the trees I looked at gave the parents as witnesses. However > that leaves the question - How can you know that witnesses are parents?> I have seen lots of marriage certificates on which a witness could have been a father or a brother with the same name, equally a mother or a sister. There is no way of telling that I am aware of, except by "killing one of them off"! -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

That was my thought also They may appear as witnesses which is not that common in my experience its usually siblings or other relatives but as there is no relationship given how would you know they were the parents Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 20/06/2012 12:49, Christine Benson wrote: > Hi Nivard and All, > > I think Ann meant that if she found a Thomas in the censuses and he was > alive in 1861 then he could not be her Thomas as she knew hers was dead. > > One of the trees I looked at gave the parents as witnesses. However that > leaves the question - How can you know that witnesses are parents? > > Christine

Hi Nivard and All, I think Ann meant that if she found a Thomas in the censuses and he was alive in 1861 then he could not be her Thomas as she knew hers was dead. One of the trees I looked at gave the parents as witnesses. However that leaves the question - How can you know that witnesses are parents? Christine -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:28 PM To: yorksgen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] YORKSGEN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 289 Hi Magdalena I suspect Ann meant *she* if she is looking for Thomas in 1861 How there came to be both parents on a marriage certificate would be interesting to know though Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

No my mistake, I read it back to front <g> Ann is seeking a Thomas that does *not* appear in 1861 Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 20/06/2012 12:28, Nivard Ovington wrote: > Hi Magdalena > > I suspect Ann meant *she* if she is looking for Thomas in 1861 > > How there came to be both parents on a marriage certificate would be > interesting to know though > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >

From: Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> > I suspect Ann meant *she* if she is looking for Thomas in 1861 > > How there came to be both parents on a marriage certificate would be > interesting to know though > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)> I have seen an equally interesting and unusual one! A few years ago I researched the ancestry of the Bradford-born actor Duncan Preston (well known for his roles with Victoria Wood and in Emmerdale) for my series on celebrity family trees in the former Pratical Family History magazine. Two of his grandparents were both illegitimate and their marriage certificate was the only one I've ever seen on which the names of the mothers are shown instead of the fathers (who were of course unknown). Has anyone else seen one like this? -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hi Magdalena I suspect Ann meant *she* if she is looking for Thomas in 1861 How there came to be both parents on a marriage certificate would be interesting to know though Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 20/06/2012 11:17, Magdalena GORRELL GUIMARAENS wrote: > Regarding the following posting, at first glance there appear to be a > couple of oddities here. First, it would appear that the person who died > is Mary, if the cause of death is anything to go on, as puerperal > haemmorrhage, also portpartum haemmorrhage, is an affectation of women > following childbirth and if the bleeding cannot be controlled, leads to > death. But then, if Maria was 22 years at her marriage three months > earlier, she would hardly be 24 years old at the time of death, so whose > obit is this? > > Magdalena