If someone has time on their hands..-)) this lovely summer day and doesn't mind a challenge I would appreciate help in finding my John Walter STEAD, born abt 1859, Wakefield, the son of John STEAD and Harriet Lake STEAD (maiden name also STEAD. John STEAD senior was previously married but I am unable to find his first marriage. He was a widower when he married Harriet on 28 Sept 1858 St John, Wakefield. In 1861 I find John, 30. a bookkeeper, and Harriet living at Bond Street, Wakefield with their son John, 2. This John senior died in 1869 and Harriet married Joseph MARSLAND, a widower, on 5 July 1870, Wakefield. In 1871 Joseph and Harriet MARSLAND are living at Burton Street, Wakefield with young John Walter STEAD, stepson aged 12. I have not been able to find John Walter STEAD in 1881. In 1891 he is living at 27 Ebbaston St., Headingley, Leeds and is a 32 year old solicitor. He is recorded as married but his wife is not in the home and I haven't been able to find a marriage. Then he disappears until 1917 when I find "At a Court of the Feltmakers Company Summoned and held at the Guildhall in the City of London on Monday the 2nd day of July 1917, Colonel John Walter Stead, of Cookridge Street, Leeds, son of John and Harriet Stead, formerly Stead, was admiited to the Freedom of the Company by redemption." I have search and searched and racked by brain with no success in finding his birth or marriage or his whereabouts in 1881 and after 1891. John Walter STEAD died 10 Jan 1947 at Coronation Hospital, Ilkley, Yorkshire leaving effects of £87,960 naming a business partner as executor. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Marg >From the Beautiful British Columbia Cariboo Region, Canada

Hi Roy Sorry to be such a pain but if you enter William Turner Marriage Wakefield Yorkshire 1800 to 1820 it's the first one to come up.It gives index project 103723-7 and source film 1542102. Marbles at the ready ? You are right about Lin's source though. Cheers Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: <roy.stockdill@btinternet.com> To: "Frank Turner" <frank@cyberscotia.com> Cc: <YORKSGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] William TURNER m. Sarah STOCKDALE > From: "Frank Turner" <frank@cyberscotia.com> > >> Hi Lin >> Some great clues here. William's baptism confirms that his father >> was a farmer which gives me another generation of farmers, so that >> fits well with what I know. William was educated enough to write his >> name as were his brothers and sisters so that eliminates a couple of >> marriages. The parishes of Rawmarsh and Huddersfield seem less >> likely and I dont yet know of a John in the family which leaves me >> with my first guess, Mary Spurr and Sarah Stockdale. I assume that >> her marriage is in St. Johns ? On balance of probabilities since >> William would be 17 at the time I would think it the less likely of >> the two.Farmers tended to marry later in life, but I'm open to >> persuasion. They all farmed around Carr Gate for many years just >> east of the present M1. >> Many thanks for these records and the trouble you have taken.< > > Unless I'm losing my marbles (quite possibly) I can still see no marriage > for a William Turner > to Sarah Stockdale (in any variant of the name) on the IGI at Wakefield. I > can only presume > Lin got this record from the Ancestry West Riding records and, as I refuse > to have an > Ancestry subscription, maybe this is one I've missed! > > Would this be the case and is the record from Ancestry? I wonder why it > hasn't been > extracted to the IGI? Doing an IGI search on Sarah Stockdale (with exact > box unticked) > doesn't produce it either. > > I agree, though, that if William was only 17 in 1807, then the marriage is > unlikely. > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: > www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > >

The Department of Useless Information has issued the following press release..... "Tomorrow, Sunday June 24 2012, marks the 31st birthday of the opening to traffic of the Humber Bridge. A formal opening ceremony by the Queen followed on 17 July. From 1981 until 1998 it was the longest single-span suspension bridge in the world but now only ranks in fifth place, having been overtaken by others in Japan, China and Denmark. "The bridge's construction and opening ended the ferry service across the Humber between Hull and Lincolnshire which had operated in various forms and routes since 1315. "Agitation for a formal link between Yorkshire and Lincolnshore had existed for over a century, with a tunnel being proposed in 1872. The Humber Estuary was regarded as a major obstacle to trade and development between the two banks of the river but it wasn't until 1959 that the Humber Bridge Act was finally passed, though construction work didn't begin until 1972." Those who remember that marvellous Yorkshire Television series "The Beiderbeck Affair", starring James Bolam and Barbara Flynn, may recall that the Humber Bridge "starred" in the third and final series, "The Beiderbecke Connection", when the couple arrive at the bridge attempting to smuggle a refugee across the border into Lincolnshire (yes, it was THAT sort of daft story but wonderful entertainment to this viewer and I watch it endlessly on DVD). Unfortunately, James Bolam didn't have the necessary £1.50 to pay the toll, so they had to turn back and left their "refugee" to walk across the bridge. I'm sorry to confess that I've only ever crossed it once and never on foot, but let's wish the Humber Bridge a very happy birthday! Anyone who wants to learn some "fascinating and absorbing" (!) facts about the bridge will find a full history and lots of other information at the bridge's official website: http://www.humberbridge.co.uk -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

where can you find info on hearth taxes ? thanks Audrey Bowne

From: "Frank Turner" <frank@cyberscotia.com> > Hi Lin > Some great clues here. William's baptism confirms that his father > was a farmer which gives me another generation of farmers, so that > fits well with what I know. William was educated enough to write his > name as were his brothers and sisters so that eliminates a couple of > marriages. The parishes of Rawmarsh and Huddersfield seem less > likely and I dont yet know of a John in the family which leaves me > with my first guess, Mary Spurr and Sarah Stockdale. I assume that > her marriage is in St. Johns ? On balance of probabilities since > William would be 17 at the time I would think it the less likely of > the two.Farmers tended to marry later in life, but I'm open to > persuasion. They all farmed around Carr Gate for many years just > east of the present M1. > Many thanks for these records and the trouble you have taken.< Unless I'm losing my marbles (quite possibly) I can still see no marriage for a William Turner to Sarah Stockdale (in any variant of the name) on the IGI at Wakefield. I can only presume Lin got this record from the Ancestry West Riding records and, as I refuse to have an Ancestry subscription, maybe this is one I've missed! Would this be the case and is the record from Ancestry? I wonder why it hasn't been extracted to the IGI? Doing an IGI search on Sarah Stockdale (with exact box unticked) doesn't produce it either. I agree, though, that if William was only 17 in 1807, then the marriage is unlikely. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hi Lin Some great clues here. William's baptism confirms that his father was a farmer which gives me another generation of farmers, so that fits well with what I know. William was educated enough to write his name as were his brothers and sisters so that eliminates a couple of marriages. The parishes of Rawmarsh and Huddersfield seem less likely and I dont yet know of a John in the family which leaves me with my first guess, Mary Spurr and Sarah Stockdale. I assume that her marriage is in St. Johns ? On balance of probabilities since William would be 17 at the time I would think it the less likely of the two.Farmers tended to marry later in life, but I'm open to persuasion. They all farmed around Carr Gate for many years just east of the present M1. Many thanks for these records and the trouble you have taken. Cheers Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: Lin To: Frank Turner Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] William TURNER m. Sarah STOCKDALE Hi Frank I'm sending you the images of the 5 marriages. Also the burial record for William in 1837 and his baptism record 1789 (St Helen, Hemsworth). Lin On 22/06/2012 14:31, Frank Turner wrote: Hi Lin Thanks for your help. What I do know is that William was one of 5 children born to Joshua TURNER and Grace Audsley. His brother George was a farm labourer so it is possible that William is of farming stock. He was born 16 July 1789 in Hemsworth Wakefield. Data on other members of the family relate to the north west side of Wakefield, e.g. East Ardsley, Carr Gate and Stanley. He died on 1 Dec 1837 in Lee Moor gate Wakefield so he could be the one you have listed at Cock Pit houses. The 5 possible marriages are :- Hannah Hall 10 Nov 1805 when he would be 16, so least likely. Sarah Stockdale 2 Mar 1807, when he would be 17. Sophia Foljambe 1809 Anna Wood 30 May 1816 Maria Spurr 19 April 1818 at St. Johns. His brother George married at St. Johns in 1817 . This was witnessed by his other brother Charles. This suggests to me that Maria is the right one. Cheers Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: Lin To: Frank Turner Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] William TURNER m. Sarah STOCKDALE Frank The marriage record for William Turner and Sarah Stockdal 2 Mar 1807 St John the Baptist, Wakefield doesn't give an occupation only he was 'of this parish'. He signed, she made a mark. William Turner married Hannah Hall St John the Baptist 10 Nov 1805 - he made a mark, she signed. There are a few baptisms to this couple - details can be sent if you want. One was baptised in 1817 - Charles - parents William and Hannah, so am assuming the same couple. They lived in Westgate and William was a clothmaker Which were the other marriages? Any other pointers which may help me find which William? There is a burial of William Turner, Cockpit Houses, Dec 3d 1837 aged 48 at St Peter, Stanley. (born about 1789) Burial of William Turner, Westgate, June 20th 1854 aged 72 (born 1782). St John the Baptist, Wakefield..Could be the one who married Hannah Hall as they lived on Westgate I can send you the images of the records. Lin On 21/06/2012 17:49, Frank Turner wrote: One of my very first posts on Yorksgen 11 years ago elicited one of those "frosty" replies from Roy. We have had several amical discussions since that time, I'm happy to say, but I now am in fear and trepidation. Why ? Because in researching the marriage of an ancient TURNER one WILLIAM b. 16 July 1789 in Hemsworth, Wakefield , I have unearthed 5 possible partners on the IGI but as you know, the detail is thin. Could it be that one of them a SARAH STOCKDALE married him in Wakefield 2 Mar 1807 ? The other 4 marriages also took place in Wakefield in a similar time frame. I have 2 questions Roy. 1) Tell me it isnt true <grin> and we are not related. 2) How can I sort them out to discover which one if any is the right one ? I can always venture back to Wakefield records office to find out if that is the simplest way. Cheers (maybe?? cousin). Frank from a wet and miserable Bonnie Scotland ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Can't you all give it a rest? I was brought up to believe that Yorkshire people were known for their forthrightness, which might cause a problem for someone unused to direct speech, but surely should be understood by all who carry the genes, whether or not we live in Yorkshire. Surely it is obvious that the first lady wrote in haste and did not check her facts or her accuracy before sending it on. Someone else found it irritating to be asked for help when inaccuracies caused an obstacle. I myself confess to being similarly impatient. The very nature of the research we are doing demands as much care and accuracy as is possible, since there are enough inaccuracies in the historical texts to be going on with. But now, from a reasonably impartial point of view, it seems to me there has developed a constant stream of justifications, subtle though they might be. The whole thing is out of kilter and I would urge that it be dropped. I don't know how big this list is, but it will be normal that a good percentage, by their very own personality types, will be able to overlook, or not even notice, inconsistencies and inaccuracies. Others are the direct opposite: find it essential to be accurate themselves and expect it of others as well. That is both the frustration and the richness of being in a large community. May I with great respect ask that we all try to . Marshall our facts and our thoughts before writing . Take the time to check our written messages before sending them off, and also . Read the full content of emails from others and ensure that our reply is pertinent to the questions asked. The last couple of days have become very tiring. I am looking forward to sharing facts, experience and understanding of my Yorkshire heritage. Not emotions. Perhaps that is what has triggered the unsubscribe email from John Needham which finally gave me the impetus and the courage to write this plea to you all. Yours sincerely, Patsy Crotty Melbourne

In regard to writing things for future generations. Last year Australia conducted a Census and we were asked to answer whether or not we agreed to that particular form being kept in order for it to be accessed in 100 years or so. Of course I answered YES, but also added a note on the bottom of the form, wishing the reader well and a couple of other things which I can't recall at the moment, so sending a message into the future. Pam in wintry Queensland ----- Original Message ----- From: "CHRISTINE WILLOTT" <christine.willott@btopenworld.com> To: "SBS Engineers Research" <research@sbse.net.au>; <yorksgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] BRIGGS Thomas I suppose things have changed but her father being dead I was a witness to my daughter's wedding Both her father in law and I are family historians and without any previous conversation we both wrote our full names in the register rather than putting our signatures as both of us thought it would make it easier for future generations to search the records Chris ________________________________ From: SBS Engineers Research <research@sbse.net.au> To: yorksgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, 22 June 2012, 8:12 Subject: [YORKSGEN] BRIGGS Thomas Hi Lin et al, Thanks for the time you spent looking at census etc., Maria's mother (be it her signature or not) definitely was Maria Richards nee Frost. I have the marriage of Maria frost and Thomas Richards. Plus the birth dates etc. for Maria Richard's and her siblings. Maria (nee Richards)BRIGGS worked for Dr. Edward Swales and his wife Margaret. Her son Thomas Francis Richards Briggs stayed sometimes with her at the Doctor's house and the rest of the time with Maria's parents. Maria didn't marry again until 1885, when she married Dr. Edward Swales. I have been to the house they lived in at 3 Trinity Rd, Sheerness. The answers may be with descendants of the RICHARDS family but sadly I've not been able to contact any 'cousins'. Regards, Ann (on a beautiful Autumn day in Perth). -----Original Message----- Having found the marriage and death certificates on line, from one of Ann's previous posts, only Thomas Briggs (gardener) and Thomas Richards (blacksmith) are listed as fathers (in the last column where they should be). Witnesses are Thos Richards, Maria Richards and Thos Briggs. ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Trish has also been a great help to me in the past! She has often contacted me if she has come across one of my names whilst researching her own family. She has also forwarded messages just in case I have missed something that she feels may be of interest to me. Happy hunting everyone Sue, Another 'Pom' living down under Morning All.? well I guess I was "the unfriendly one"...been called some things in my time but never unfriendly....blunt yes? - unfriendly never. ? Hopefully some people on the list can vouch for my friendliness.? I am only too happy to help people wherever I can but need the correct, and preferably documented, info.?

The Guild of Freemen of London have a websitewww.guild-freemen-london.co.uk London is now the only place you can buy the Freedom. It was stopped in other towns and cities in 1835 through the Corporation Act. In December 2009 an act of partliment changed the rules once more, admitting women (many places were men only) Letting you go through the maternal line and it didn't matter if you were born before or after the person you were claiming through. Hope that helps. June Gild of Freemen www.freemenofyork.org Family Historian to Dunnington Through The Ages www.dunningtonhistory.org.uk York Festival Trust www.yorkmysteryplays.co.uk

my family coat of arms has sleeves that tie at the back! is that normal? Love it - that has made me laugh after a day watching the rain pour down!!! It was raining when I got up and looks like it will be raining when I go to bed. Come back Gulf Stream, all is forgiven!!! Jane -----Original Message----- From: SBS Engineers Research Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 9:37 AM To: yorksgen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] BRIGGS One Name Study. Dear Carolyn, I didn't say 'everyone' was unfriendly. I posted on the list that only one person replied in a slightly unkind manner - yes, I was rushed and my email had mistakes in it. it's over and done with. Everyone else has been kind and friendly, including yourself. Thanks for the information below - you have the correct death. My Thomas Briggs died 09 August 1854 (September quarter). Burial 09Aug1854. Sad, as he was only 24yrs old and just married, and was no doubt looking at a long and happy life. I still can't help wishing the people who recorded these events back in the old days, had more thought for those (their descendants) who in the future might want to know about them :):):):) dare I joke! Thanks again. Regards Ann - (Winter Solstice yesterday, we woke up to temperature 0.7C bbbbbrrrrrr). my family coat of arms has sleeves that tie at the back! is that normal? -----Original Message----- Hi Ann, However there was the death of a Thomas BRIGGS in Kent in September, 1854???? (On BMD.) Maybe I'm confused and all my info. was stupid but I really did try! Nor do I think this is an "unfriendly" list. Everyone has tried to help you with all the time and energy they've got!! All the best, Carolyn in NSW. ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Marg My great grandfather who moved to London and set up as an accountant became a Freeman in 1896, so I was interested to find out how this had happened. I guess you can read the record on Ancestry. There was a point when admission to the Freedom of the City was necessary to permit people to practice their trade and earn a living but by the late 1800s, this was no longer required. Only a few distinguished and worthy individuals are granted the Honorary Freedom and my great grandfather wasn't up there alongside Churchill or Florence Nightingale. If you completed an apprenticeship of at least 4 years (after 1889, 7 years before that) to a City Freeman you became a Freeman by Servitude. To become a Freeman by redemption (purchase) you could either petition the Court of Aldermen if going through a City Livery Company (such as the Goldsmiths or the Feltmakers) or petition the Court of Common Council if no Livery Company was involved. In your John Walter STEAD's case, it looks as if he might have gone through a Livery Company. The Livery Company involved does not always seem to be relevant to the Freeman's actual occupation as I doubt a solicitor would be involved in making hats. A child of a Freeman could become one by Patrimony, as long as they had been born after the father (until the 1970s) was admitted as a Freeman. For this reason, my own grandfather followed the redemption route too, although two great uncles did become Freemen by Servitude. I'm not sure what the benefits were by the late 1800s or early 1900s, although the prospect of your offspring attending the City of London School might have been one of them. I think a vote in the City as well as wherever they lived could also have resulted. Hope this helps Regards Anne Harley Message: 6 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2012 09:40:10 -0700 From: "Margaret Cambridge" <talktomarg@shaw.ca> Subject: [YORKSGEN] Freedom of City of London in Company of Feltmakers To: <yorksgen-l@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <E569D6E8F9564036B060A6C64A31E13D@margaret78c408> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all, I have a distant relative, John Walter STEAD, born 1858, Wakefield, (2nd cousin twice removed) who in 1917 was admitted to the Freedom of the City of London by Redemption in the Company of Feltmakers. Would 'Redemption' mean that his membership would be reviewed periodically? John was a solicitor, .....J. W. Stead & Jobbings in Leeds. Thank you for any thoughts.............. Marg >From the Beautiful British Columbia Cariboo Region, Canada ------------------------------ To contact the YORKSGEN list administrator, send an email to YORKSGEN-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the YORKSGEN mailing list, send an email to YORKSGEN@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of YORKSGEN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 297 ****************************************

A quick Google came up with: Members generally fall into two categories: freemen and liverymen </wiki/Liveryman>. One may become a freeman, or acquire the "freedom of the company", upon fulfilling the company's criteria: traditionally, one may be admitted by "patrimony", if either parent was a liveryman of the company; by "servitude", if one has served the requisite number of years as an apprentice of the company; or by "redemption", if one pays a fee. (The Company may also vote to admit individuals as honorary freemen.) Freemen generally advance to becoming liverymen by a vote of the court of the Company. Only liverymen can take part in the election of the Lord Mayor </wiki/Lord_Mayor_of_London>, the Sheriffs </wiki/Sheriffs_of_the_City_of_London>, and the other traditional officers of the City. Lin On 22/06/2012 17:40, Margaret Cambridge wrote: > Hi all, > I have a distant relative, John Walter STEAD, born 1858, Wakefield, (2nd cousin twice removed) who in 1917 was admitted to the Freedom of the City of London by Redemption in the Company of Feltmakers. > > Would 'Redemption' mean that his membership would be reviewed periodically? > John was a solicitor, .....J. W. Stead & Jobbings in Leeds. > > Thank you for any thoughts.............. > > Marg > >From the Beautiful British Columbia Cariboo Region, Canada > ..... > Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; > www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; > www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I've scanned my last two census forms before sending them off. Lynn in a supposedly summery England -----Original Message----- From: yorksgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:yorksgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Pam Sent: 22 June 2012 12:42 To: CHRISTINE WILLOTT; yorksgen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] BRIGGS Thomas In regard to writing things for future generations. Last year Australia conducted a Census and we were asked to answer whether or not we agreed to that particular form being kept in order for it to be accessed in 100 years or so. Of course I answered YES, but also added a note on the bottom of the form, wishing the reader well and a couple of other things which I can't recall at the moment, so sending a message into the future. Pam in wintry Queensland ----- Original Message ----- From: "CHRISTINE WILLOTT" <christine.willott@btopenworld.com> To: "SBS Engineers Research" <research@sbse.net.au>; <yorksgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] BRIGGS Thomas I suppose things have changed but her father being dead I was a witness to my daughter's wedding Both her father in law and I are family historians and without any previous conversation we both wrote our full names in the register rather than putting our signatures as both of us thought it would make it easier for future generations to search the records Chris ________________________________ From: SBS Engineers Research <research@sbse.net.au> To: yorksgen@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, 22 June 2012, 8:12 Subject: [YORKSGEN] BRIGGS Thomas Hi Lin et al, Thanks for the time you spent looking at census etc., Maria's mother (be it her signature or not) definitely was Maria Richards nee Frost. I have the marriage of Maria frost and Thomas Richards. Plus the birth dates etc. for Maria Richard's and her siblings. Maria (nee Richards)BRIGGS worked for Dr. Edward Swales and his wife Margaret. Her son Thomas Francis Richards Briggs stayed sometimes with her at the Doctor's house and the rest of the time with Maria's parents. Maria didn't marry again until 1885, when she married Dr. Edward Swales. I have been to the house they lived in at 3 Trinity Rd, Sheerness. The answers may be with descendants of the RICHARDS family but sadly I've not been able to contact any 'cousins'. Regards, Ann (on a beautiful Autumn day in Perth). -----Original Message----- Having found the marriage and death certificates on line, from one of Ann's previous posts, only Thomas Briggs (gardener) and Thomas Richards (blacksmith) are listed as fathers (in the last column where they should be). Witnesses are Thos Richards, Maria Richards and Thos Briggs. ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ..... Ancestors in Yorkshire? http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/index.html; www.ryedalefamilyhistory.org; www.wharfedalefhg.org.uk; www.yorkshireparishregisters.com; www.yorkshireroots.org.uk; ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to YORKSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Carolyn, I didn't say 'everyone' was unfriendly. I posted on the list that only one person replied in a slightly unkind manner - yes, I was rushed and my email had mistakes in it. it's over and done with. Everyone else has been kind and friendly, including yourself. Thanks for the information below - you have the correct death. My Thomas Briggs died 09 August 1854 (September quarter). Burial 09Aug1854. Sad, as he was only 24yrs old and just married, and was no doubt looking at a long and happy life. I still can't help wishing the people who recorded these events back in the old days, had more thought for those (their descendants) who in the future might want to know about them :):):):) dare I joke! Thanks again. Regards Ann - (Winter Solstice yesterday, we woke up to temperature 0.7C bbbbbrrrrrr). my family coat of arms has sleeves that tie at the back! is that normal? -----Original Message----- Hi Ann, However there was the death of a Thomas BRIGGS in Kent in September, 1854???? (On BMD.) Maybe I'm confused and all my info. was stupid but I really did try! Nor do I think this is an "unfriendly" list. Everyone has tried to help you with all the time and energy they've got!! All the best, Carolyn in NSW.

Many thanks to Anne and June. Gives me lots to look in to. Marg >From the Beautiful British Columbia Cariboo Region, Canada From: "Anne Harley" <Anne@eborel.co.uk> To: <yorksgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 10:32 AM Subject: [YORKSGEN] Freedom of City of London in Company of Feltmakers Hi Marg My great grandfather who moved to London and set up as an accountant became a Freeman in 1896, so I was interested to find out how this had happened. I guess you can read the record on Ancestry. There was a point when admission to the Freedom of the City was necessary to permit people to practice their trade and earn a living but by the late 1800s, this was no longer required. Only a few distinguished and worthy individuals are granted the Honorary Freedom and my great grandfather wasn't up there alongside Churchill or Florence Nightingale. If you completed an apprenticeship of at least 4 years (after 1889, 7 years before that) to a City Freeman you became a Freeman by Servitude. To become a Freeman by redemption (purchase) you could either petition the Court of Aldermen if going through a City Livery Company (such as the Goldsmiths or the Feltmakers) or petition the Court of Common Council if no Livery Company was involved. In your John Walter STEAD's case, it looks as if he might have gone through a Livery Company. The Livery Company involved does not always seem to be relevant to the Freeman's actual occupation as I doubt a solicitor would be involved in making hats. A child of a Freeman could become one by Patrimony, as long as they had been born after the father (until the 1970s) was admitted as a Freeman. For this reason, my own grandfather followed the redemption route too, although two great uncles did become Freemen by Servitude. I'm not sure what the benefits were by the late 1800s or early 1900s, although the prospect of your offspring attending the City of London School might have been one of them. I think a vote in the City as well as wherever they lived could also have resulted. Hope this helps Regards Anne Harley From: "June Parker" <juneparker142@hotmail.com> Subject: [YORKSGEN] Freemen The Guild of Freemen of London have a websitewww.guild-freemen-london.co.uk London is now the only place you can buy the Freedom. It was stopped in other towns and cities in 1835 through the Corporation Act. In December 2009 an act of partliment changed the rules once more, admitting women (many places were men only) Letting you go through the maternal line and it didn't matter if you were born before or after the person you were claiming through. Hope that helps. June Gild of Freemen www.freemenofyork.org

Hi Lin et al, Thanks for the time you spent looking at census etc., Maria's mother (be it her signature or not) definitely was Maria Richards nee Frost. I have the marriage of Maria frost and Thomas Richards. Plus the birth dates etc. for Maria Richard's and her siblings. Maria (nee Richards)BRIGGS worked for Dr. Edward Swales and his wife Margaret. Her son Thomas Francis Richards Briggs stayed sometimes with her at the Doctor's house and the rest of the time with Maria's parents. Maria didn't marry again until 1885, when she married Dr. Edward Swales. I have been to the house they lived in at 3 Trinity Rd, Sheerness. The answers may be with descendants of the RICHARDS family but sadly I've not been able to contact any 'cousins'. Regards, Ann (on a beautiful Autumn day in Perth). -----Original Message----- Having found the marriage and death certificates on line, from one of Ann's previous posts, only Thomas Briggs (gardener) and Thomas Richards (blacksmith) are listed as fathers (in the last column where they should be). Witnesses are Thos Richards, Maria Richards and Thos Briggs.

Hi Nivard and all I hope I haven't mislead you here...the marriage cert for Thomas Briggs and Maria Richards shows the father's names where it asks for "father's names" So we have Father: Thomas Briggs - with Gardener in the rank/profession area. Plus Maria's father Thomas Richards - Blacksmith. WITNESSES: Maria Richards (Maria's mother nee FROST); Thomas Richards and Thomas Briggs. So I was very lucky to have Maria's name on there as it made researching that family so much easier. However, on the copy of Thomas Briggs death certificate 09 Aug 1854, at 122 Charles St, Blue Town; no mention of any family, not even his wife. The description of informer: Grace Creber 'X' her mark, present at the death. The Creber's also came from Devon and may have been family friends. I thought it was odd that there is no mention of Thomas's wife or his birth place. Maybe you can tell me if it was normal for those times, not to mention these things. The BRIGGS surname seems more prevalent in Yorkshire than elsewhere and as BRIGGS is a very large one name study, I don't think I can do it alone. I welcome people like Victor to help out. Kind regards Ann Spiro -----Original Message----- Hi Ann: You have a fairly unusual document there then, despite seeing rather a lot of marriage certificates, I have yet to see a marriage which lists both parents so you have something rather unique there

Hello Victor, Many thanks for your email and I would love to have your BRIGGS details for my ONS. My mother's maiden name was BRIGGS. MY grandfather being the only member of his family to come to Australia....settled first at Rockdale (Sydney) and then went to Maryong (now Blacktown) in NSW. My cousins may do a DNA test soon. I have started a DNA Project for my grandfathers maternal side BASKETT. Enjoy your travels in beautiful Canada and I look forward to hearing from you later on. I'll send you the 'dropbox' with the information we Briggs followers are sharing. Bye for now. Kind regards Ann Spiro Perth, WA Guild rep-australia-north-west@one-name.org ONS: Baskett; Briggs. DNA Project: Baskett Http://blacksmiths.mygenwebs.com .............................................. Hi Ann I have a number of BRIGGS in my tree. My grandfather, George Henry Briggs was born in 1862 at Ludford Magna, Lincolnshire. He was the illegitimate son of Mary Briggs who married Charles Markham in 1865. George Henry Briggs was henceforth known as George Henry Markham. I had a DNA test to see if it was possible Charles Markham was his father. He is not. His father was from Central Europe possibly Poland. My DNA details are on the DNA web site. If you don't have my Briggs I will send you the details, for your one name study, when I get home next week. I am currently touring Canada. I am in contact with a cousin, Roland Briggs, who lives in Lincolnshire Victor

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