re. Message 4. Selby Yorks Dear Bill,May help - I have been confused a few times by a place named Scalby, when looking for some Selbyfamily members. Don't know where Scalby is, but it may be relevant. PamIn sunny Queensland > 4. Selby Yorks - Scawby N Lincs (Bill Webster) > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 11:46:03 +1100 > From: "Bill Webster" <[email protected]> > Subject: [YORKSGEN] Selby Yorks - Scawby N Lincs > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Recent posts mentioning Selby have prompted me to reprise a query I put here > a year ago, which many tried to help with, thank you, including the Selby > FHS. It concerned this entry in the Hull Packet & Advertiser of 13 Dec > 1808. > > MARRIAGES > On Tuesday last, at Thornton, by the Reverend Mr Mackerith, Mr. CLARK, of > Castlethorp, near Selby, to Miss WEBSTER, daughter of the late Reverend > Robert Webster, Rector of Thorpebasset, and Curate of the Holy Trinity > Church at this place (Hull). (My capitals and brackets.) > > I do not know these areas at all. But I have just done a search at the OS > Getamap site for "Castlethorp" and one of two options is for a village and > farm named Castlethorpe, near SCAWBY, just west outside of Brigg in North > Lincolnshire. > > Does anyone think it may have been possible for the Hull Packet compiler of > local news to have mistaken Scawby for Selby, Selby being much the better > known? > > The Hull newspaper also could have been rehashing an entry in another paper > from closer to Thornton (Dale) where the marriage took place, but I have not > found such other newspaper entry. Such other paper may not have known its > Selby from its Scawby. > > Clark is such a difficult name to research because there are just so many > hits. But I will have to try to find an association of the name Clark with > Castlethorpe in N Lincs. And I have no idea why this couple married in the > north of the Vale of Pickering. The bride was aged about 31 having been > born in Hull in 1777. Perhaps by 1808 she was employed and therefore lived > near Thornton. > > Bill Webster > New South Wales > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the YORKSGEN list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the YORKSGEN mailing list, send an email to [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of YORKSGEN Digest, Vol 10, Issue 26 > ****************************************

Recent posts mentioning Selby have prompted me to reprise a query I put here a year ago, which many tried to help with, thank you, including the Selby FHS. It concerned this entry in the Hull Packet & Advertiser of 13 Dec 1808. MARRIAGES On Tuesday last, at Thornton, by the Reverend Mr Mackerith, Mr. CLARK, of Castlethorp, near Selby, to Miss WEBSTER, daughter of the late Reverend Robert Webster, Rector of Thorpebasset, and Curate of the Holy Trinity Church at this place (Hull). (My capitals and brackets.) I do not know these areas at all. But I have just done a search at the OS Getamap site for "Castlethorp" and one of two options is for a village and farm named Castlethorpe, near SCAWBY, just west outside of Brigg in North Lincolnshire. Does anyone think it may have been possible for the Hull Packet compiler of local news to have mistaken Scawby for Selby, Selby being much the better known? The Hull newspaper also could have been rehashing an entry in another paper from closer to Thornton (Dale) where the marriage took place, but I have not found such other newspaper entry. Such other paper may not have known its Selby from its Scawby. Clark is such a difficult name to research because there are just so many hits. But I will have to try to find an association of the name Clark with Castlethorpe in N Lincs. And I have no idea why this couple married in the north of the Vale of Pickering. The bride was aged about 31 having been born in Hull in 1777. Perhaps by 1808 she was employed and therefore lived near Thornton. Bill Webster New South Wales

Hi Margaret I wonder when communigate ceased, I felt sure I visited just before Christmas but you know how time flies by To update my previous, I made contact with Northumbria University who came back promptly but did not seem to know they were once a sponsor, they did point out the shorter url took you to newstrade who I gather hosted it, however try as I might I cannot find a way to contact them to ask about it I could not find Alisons email address and if its under Lingdale it would explain why I couldn't find her site I found the Lingdale fb group and will ask to join it I visited the site Alison has on Loftus and am heartened to find the transcripts I did are on there :-) Many thanks Margaret, I will update if I get further Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/01/2015 11:15, Margaret O'Shea via wrote: > Hello Nivard > > Alison Small who was responsible for Lingdale and Loftus on Communicate has > set up new websites and the old information should still be on these, but I > am not sure about Brotton. However Alison may know about this - email > [email protected] > > I received this message from Alison last August - Please see new websites > below. The Lingdale site is not completed yet, still work in progress > Regards Alison > > alisonsmall32.wix.com/lingdalehistory > alisonsmall32.wix.com/loftushistory > alisonsmall32.wix.com/for-king-and-country > http://alisonsmall32.wix.com/sandsend-history > > All photographs for Lingdale history are on Facebook (closed group) > > https://www.facebook.com/groups/151383042012/ > > > Margaret O'Shea > Oxford

Hello Nivard Alison Small who was responsible for Lingdale and Loftus on Communicate has set up new websites and the old information should still be on these, but I am not sure about Brotton. However Alison may know about this - email [email protected] I received this message from Alison last August - Please see new websites below. The Lingdale site is not completed yet, still work in progress Regards Alison alisonsmall32.wix.com/lingdalehistory alisonsmall32.wix.com/loftushistory alisonsmall32.wix.com/for-king-and-country http://alisonsmall32.wix.com/sandsend-history All photographs for Lingdale history are on Facebook (closed group) https://www.facebook.com/groups/151383042012/ Margaret O'Shea Oxford On 26/01/2015 22:29, Nivard Ovington via wrote: > Hi all > > Anyone have any idea what became of Communigate ? > > There was one on Brotton and another on Loftus but I am getting error > messages when I try and access them > > They had a lot of useful information on them and its a pity if they > are gone for good

If you look at Yorkshire Genuki site there is listed a Thornton near Pocklington which is not that far away from Selby. The Hull Packet could have been sold in Brigg which is across the River Humber and they did have ferries in those days. There used to be a ferry from Hessle where there was a pub called 'The Ferryboat Inn' Last time I passed by the building I think it was a Thai restaurant Victor On 28/01/2015 12:46 AM, Bill Webster via wrote: > Recent posts mentioning Selby have prompted me to reprise a query I put here > a year ago, which many tried to help with, thank you, including the Selby > FHS. It concerned this entry in the Hull Packet & Advertiser of 13 Dec > 1808. > > MARRIAGES > On Tuesday last, at Thornton, by the Reverend Mr Mackerith, Mr. CLARK, of > Castlethorp, near Selby, to Miss WEBSTER, daughter of the late Reverend > Robert Webster, Rector of Thorpebasset, and Curate of the Holy Trinity > Church at this place (Hull). (My capitals and brackets.) > > I do not know these areas at all. But I have just done a search at the OS > Getamap site for "Castlethorp" and one of two options is for a village and > farm named Castlethorpe, near SCAWBY, just west outside of Brigg in North > Lincolnshire. > > Does anyone think it may have been possible for the Hull Packet compiler of > local news to have mistaken Scawby for Selby, Selby being much the better > known? > > The Hull newspaper also could have been rehashing an entry in another paper > from closer to Thornton (Dale) where the marriage took place, but I have not > found such other newspaper entry. Such other paper may not have known its > Selby from its Scawby. > > Clark is such a difficult name to research because there are just so many > hits. But I will have to try to find an association of the name Clark with > Castlethorpe in N Lincs. And I have no idea why this couple married in the > north of the Vale of Pickering. The bride was aged about 31 having been > born in Hull in 1777. Perhaps by 1808 she was employed and therefore lived > near Thornton. > > Bill Webster > New South Wales > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Bill As a native of Selby, my first thought was Castleford. It's not far away and my mum and dad used to go shopping there. Also my dad was sent to Pontefract hospital from Selby and that is next to Castleford. Yvonne in Stillingfleet (between York and Selby) --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

Hello Bill, As a member of the Ryedale Family History Group, I immediately noticed that the Rev. Mr. Mackerith was mentioned in association with Thornton. There are many places in Yorkshire called Thornton, but this stands out as being Thornton Dale, in the Vale of Pickering. It is also close to Thorpe Bassett - about 10 miles by road, although only about half that in actual distance, but the River Derwent intervenes. Castlethorpe may be near to Selby. It could be just the name of a farm, or could be a mistake. Castleford and Castleforth (probably contraction of Castleford) are mentioned in the Selby parish records, but not Castlethorpe. Our Research Room has copies of the microfilms for Thornton Dale, so I will be able to check that for you when we open tomorrow (Thursday). Regards Janice Wood ________________________________ From: Bill Webster via <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 28 January 2015, 0:46 Subject: [YORKSGEN] Selby Yorks - Scawby N Lincs Recent posts mentioning Selby have prompted me to reprise a query I put here a year ago, which many tried to help with, thank you, including the Selby FHS.  It concerned this entry in the Hull Packet & Advertiser of 13 Dec 1808. MARRIAGES On Tuesday last, at Thornton, by the Reverend Mr Mackerith, Mr. CLARK, of Castlethorp, near Selby, to Miss WEBSTER, daughter of the late Reverend Robert Webster, Rector of Thorpebasset, and Curate of the Holy Trinity Church at this place (Hull).  (My capitals and brackets.) I do not know these areas at all.  But I have just done a search at the OS Getamap site for "Castlethorp" and one of two options is for a village and farm named Castlethorpe, near SCAWBY, just west outside of Brigg in North Lincolnshire. Does anyone think it may have been possible for the Hull Packet compiler of local news to have mistaken Scawby for Selby, Selby being much the better known?  The Hull newspaper also could have been rehashing an entry in another paper from closer to Thornton (Dale) where the marriage took place, but I have not found such other newspaper entry.  Such other paper may not have known its Selby from its Scawby. Clark is such a difficult name to research because there are just so many hits.  But I will have to try to find an association of the name Clark with Castlethorpe in N Lincs.  And I have no idea why this couple married in the north of the Vale of Pickering.  The bride was aged about 31 having been born in Hull in 1777.  Perhaps by 1808 she was employed and therefore lived near Thornton. Bill Webster New South Wales ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

They are most likely for attendance. I got these for attendance in Episcopal Church Sunday school. A round gold plated pin with a wreath around for the second year and then bars attached by two links for each year after that. Kathryne Natale [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: CHRISTINE WILLOTT via <[email protected]> To: Gillian Cattell <[email protected]>; yorksgen <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Jan 21, 2015 3:11 pm Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] Ainsty Bishopthorpe & Selby Church Society reward of merit medal Hi I wonder if they were the equivalent of a Sunday school prize?? Chris ----Original message---- >From : [email protected] Date : 21/01/2015 - 12:04 (GMTST) To : [email protected] Subject : [YORKSGEN] Ainsty Bishopthorpe & Selby Church Society reward of merit medal Dear all I have a photo of my Wheatley family taken around 1898 in Ulleskelf in the Ainsty. All the children have medals attached to their clothing the girls have three and the boys five. I have in my possession six of these identical medals in small boxes with my grandads name (Harold Wheatley) inscribed on the boxes. On the one side is written *"Ainsty Bishopthorpe & Selby Church Society Awarded for attendance"* on the other side *"Reward of Merit"* The medal was fabricated by *Allman London* The date I give is an assumption on how old my grandfather looks (born 9/8/1888) but it is definitely before 30th March 1901 as on the census they are all living in York. Has anyone any ideas on where to find out more about the Church Society and /or the medals. -- Gillian Cattell ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Colin Much appreciated I confess I knew that and use the waybackmachine quite often but many thanks for posting that Still unsure what has happened to Communigate though One thing I haven't done is to contact Northumbria University which I shall now do Once again thank you, appreciate the feed back Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 27/01/2015 10:31, Colin Withers via wrote: > The archived pages can still be accessed via the Internet Archive: > > http://web.archive.org/web/20140116132250/http://www.communigate.co.uk/ne/brottonhistory/ > > Colin

On 26/01/2015 22:29, Nivard Ovington via wrote: > Hi all > > Anyone have any idea what became of Communigate ? > > There was one on Brotton and another on Loftus but I am getting error > messages when I try and access them > > They had a lot of useful information on them and its a pity if they are > gone for good > > The archived pages can still be accessed via the Internet Archive: http://web.archive.org/web/20140116132250/http://www.communigate.co.uk/ne/brottonhistory/ Colin

Hi everyone, I have also found extra information on some BTs which was not on the PRs. I use the LDS films for my research so always order in PRs and BTs of the relevant parishes - if they are both available, but, many only have BTs. I have found Dade Registers on some of my Yorkshire films, they are wonderful. Happy hunting, Annette WATSON Lismore 2480 Australia

>From David Hey's 'The Oxford Companion to Local and Family History': << In 1538 Thomas Cromwell ordered each 'parish in England and Wales to keep a register of baptisms, marriages, and burials. At first the normal practice was to record such events on loose sheets, many of which have been lost or destroyed. In 1597 it was ordered that from the coming year each parish should keep a bound register and that older records should be entered into that register, the accuracy of the transcript being attested at the foot of each page by the minister and two churchwardens. Only a minority of parishes have records as far back as 1538; many parishes began their copies in 1558, the year that Elizabeth l came to the throne. The same Act of 1597 also ordered that in future a copy of all the events registered during the past year should be sent to the bishop's office. These bishop's transcripts are now kept at diocesan record offices. They sometimes cover gaps left by the destruction of original registers, but in general their survival rate is not as good. >> [My edition of this invaluable book was published in 1996 so the penultimate sentence is now outdated. However, the book remains my 'bible' and I highly recommend it. ] A further book recommendation is the classic W E Tate's 'The Parish Chest' first published in 1946 which has the following: << The parish was to provide a 'sure coffer with two locks, the parson having the custody of one key, the wardens that of the other.' The entries were to be made each Sunday after service, in the presence of one of the wardens. The mandate was enforced under a penalty of 3s.4d. for the repair of the church. These entries were generally made upon paper, sometimes upon loose sheets, and sixty years later these registers were ordered to be copied upon parchment in books, so that the registers which still survive dating back to 1538-9 - perhaps about 1400 or 1500 in number - rarely contain original entries of this date. This may be seen in the fact that the entries 1538-1598, when there are any, are almost invariably throughout in the hands of the incumbents of 1598 or, in some populous parishes, of the professional scriveners who transcribed data from the old paper registers. Sometimes the earliest paper registers had disappeared even before the transcription was ordered in 1598, e.g. at Kirton in Lindsey, Lincs. - according to a note in the earliest extant register, the register is missing since one 'Vicare was maryed and deprived and ye next incumbent kep one that non can fynd'. >> For a detailed explanation of the 'Dade' registers see here: http://www.localpopulationstudies.org.uk/PDF/LPS73/Article_3_Bellingham_pp51 -60.pdf Hope this helps. Ruth

Hi all Anyone have any idea what became of Communigate ? There was one on Brotton and another on Loftus but I am getting error messages when I try and access them They had a lot of useful information on them and its a pity if they are gone for good -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Hi Nick The question you have to ask is what came first the parish register or bishops transcript copy As in all things where humans are involved they will change the system to their liking In many case the BTs were found to be the original copy and the parish register the copy Added to that the person who filled in and or copied the BTs varied enormously in skill and work ethics, some did them on a rolling basis, some from notes, some at the end of the year (some not at all or patchily) If the original was filled in by several hands at various times, then the clerk or church warden copied up the BTs (or PRs) that person may have had more knowledge of the flock Think of a case and it probably happened somewhere Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 26/01/2015 19:54, Nick Higton via wrote: > If information is in the BTs that is not in the PRs, it begs a > question as to reliability, as the former was supposed to be > extracted from the latter. Of course, it’s probable that the writer > of the BTs (at the end of the year to which the PRs refer) knew the > family concerned, but there could also be a suspicion of re-writing > history, for example, to legitimise an illegitimate birth, or even > create some claim to an estate. The motives of the writer at the time > need to be considered.

My grandfather published a similar notice in 1920. He and grandmother lived separate lives for 29 years until she died. Grandfather got married two years later to a divorcoed woman I think he'd been living with for some time. Lin On 26/01/2015 09:37, Nivard Ovington via wrote: > Hi Margaret > > Such notices were commonplace > > It had nothing to do with a divorce, it was purely to offset the > liability of debts run up by a woman, whose husband would be liable for > them > > If a bill was presented after the time of publication it could rightly > be returned as not the husbands liability > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 26/01/2015 09:10, Margaret Harrison via wrote: >> I have come across in a newspaper of 1881 a notice "Thomas Foster, farmer >> of Tholthorpe, will not be responsible for the debts of his wife, Dorothy, >> however caused, after this date". >> >> The family subsequently broke up. >> Was this regarded as a quasi legal document and was the publication of such >> a notice usually regarded as a de facto divorce ? >> >> Was the notice posted because the wife had usually run up debts or because >> she had left with another man? Or was the notice put in the papers to >> announce that husband and wife had split up ? >> >> Margaret > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I can remember these notices appearing in the News of the world in the 1950's and as a youngster who was not supposed to read said newspaper often wondered what they were all about. Regards Patrick Williams Bruton Somerset We had in our family a Thomas SHEPHERDSON who had married an Ursula SHEPHERDSON, a cousin of his. We knew that there was a child baptised and buried shortly after that. We also knew that when Thomas died, he left a will and no wife was mentioned. So did she die or what happened to her? Well, we found a marriage of an Ursula SHEPHERDSON a few years later to someone else. Could that have been her? We always thought it was likely her, with such an uncommon first and last name. But then trolling thru the newspapers came across this gem: Saturday April 30, 1877Yorkshire In The Last CenturyOld History Retold July 22"Whereas Urslay Shepherdson, wife of Thomas Shepherdson, of Acklam, hath eloped from her said husband, This is therefore to caution the public against harbouring or giving any credit to the said Urslay Shepherdson, as her said husband will not pay any debts she may contract. Witness my hand this 22nd day of July, 1777. Thomas Shepherdson" This was originally posted in the newspaper in 1777 but a reflection on old history reprinted this in 1877. So by chance of it being retold 100 years later, we found our answer. She left Thomas for another man. Janet I have come across in a newspaper of 1881 a notice "Thomas Foster, farmer of Tholthorpe, will not be responsible for the debts of his wife, Dorothy, however caused, after this date". The family subsequently broke up. Was this regarded as a quasi legal document and was the publication of such a notice usually regarded as a de facto divorce ? Was the notice posted because the wife had usually run up debts or because she had left with another man? Or was the notice put in the papers to announce that husband and wife had split up ? Margaret

If information is in the BTs that is not in the PRs, it begs a question as to reliability, as the former was supposed to be extracted from the latter. Of course, it’s probable that the writer of the BTs (at the end of the year to which the PRs refer) knew the family concerned, but there could also be a suspicion of re-writing history, for example, to legitimise an illegitimate birth, or even create some claim to an estate. The motives of the writer at the time need to be considered. Does anyone know where there is a list of the parishes that used Dade and Barrington Registers? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 26 January 2015 18:25 To: Nick Higton; [email protected] Subject: Re: [YORKSGEN] Dade Registers and Bishop's Transcripts - BARNBY of York Nick I would disagree that Parish Registers are always better than BT's. I have found some info in BTs that are not always in the PRs and I have also found info in PRs that are not always in BTs. You also have to remember that in some cases the only records in a parish will be the BTs. In the Parish of Acklam, the Parish Registers don't start til 1716, but there are BTs before that date. Granted, going back further, the records are not complete. The farther back you go, the harder it is to read anything. Take a look at the Genuki website for Yorkshire as Colin Blanshard Withers has given info on every parish in Yorkshire as to the types of records that are available and where. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ You mention that the Parish Registers gave you the names of the grandparents. However, don't credit that to "Parish Registers" and think that all Parish Registers give that type of info. The info you gleaned from that is because it is part of the Dade Registers. Not all parishes had Dade Registers and they were only up to a certain period of time. I agree that the info from Dade Registers is fantastic especially when families may be living in a different parish. Janet _____ From: Nick Higton via <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 5:25 AM Subject: [YORKSGEN] Dade Registers and Bishop's Transcripts - BARNBY of York I've been doing some research into the BARNBY family of York, initially using Find My Past's collection of York Parish Registers, and have found that in many cases it is the Bishop's Transcript images and their FMP transcriptions that have been added to the site, when the Parish Registers will almost certainly contain more information. I first realised this when I cross-checked on Ancestry for the baptism of Samuel BARNBY, on 09 August 1785 at St Sampson's, and found two transcription entries. The first, from a collection entitled "England, Select Births and Christenings 1538-1975" gave his birth and baptism dates plus his father's fore- and surname, and his mother's forename. This information is identical to that on FMP. The second, from a collection entitled "England & Wales Christening Records 1530-1906" gave the same information, plus his mother's maiden name, and the names of both paternal grandfathers. The latter is obviously invaluable when trying to confirm that you have found the correct ancestors for someone. I'm assuming that this is a transcription of the PR, so I now need to find and check a microfilm or digital copy of the original register. In other instances, I've found that the transcription omits vital information that is clearly visible on the original register image. It's obvious, but I'd recommend always to check the original Parish Register, if it still exists, rather than relying on transcriptions or BTs, both of which are prone to transcription errors or just omitting information, as the process of producing an Ancestry or FMP transcription involves a number of stages, at any of which errors/omissions can be introduced: 1. The clergyman writes information in the Parish Register, relying upon often illiterate parents, and sometimes without the diligence that might be expected 2. At the year end, he or another parish officer has the boring, administrative job of compiling the Bishop's Transcripts, so he may decide to copy just the minimum information needed, without necessarily being too bothered about accuracy, and also by possibly having to interpret someone else's scrawled handwriting 3. Years later, another person tries to read the BT (more scrawled handwriting, and possibly a microfilm copy of dubious quality!), and copy the information into a format suitable for being printed. This may be typed, or be yet another manuscript 4. The typesetter at the printers prepares the blocks ready for printing, and a proof of this is checked for accuracy, but maybe by yet another person 5. Ancestry, FMP etc. type their transcript (or maybe use an Optical Character Recognition program) into a computer to put online, possibly using the PR or BT, but possibly instead using the printed transcript 6. This information is put online to be lapped up by a sometimes un-sceptical audience Someone could probably work out the statistical probability of the information at step 6 being identical to that at step 1, but I bet it is low enough not to use it as the basis for, potentially, years of wasted effort researching the wrong family, for wont of reading the original parish registers. Don't get me wrong, I'm a great fan of the online information provided by Ancestry, FMP etc., as it saves a lot of time and effort if used correctly. But, as was said of the IGI years ago, it is best used as a finding aid, and cannot be relied upon to be accurate. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Such an announcements were most often made in the event of a runaway wife. Under English common law a married woman was a /feme covert/, and had no general separate legal status to that of her husband. The principle of coverture was described in William Blackstone <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Blackstone>'s /Commentaries on the Laws of England <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commentaries_on_the_Laws_of_England>/ in the late 18th century: By marriage, the husband and wife are one person in law: that is, the very being or legal existence of the woman is suspended during the marriage, or at least is incorporated and consolidated into that of the husband: under whose wing, protection, and cover, she performs every thing; and is therefore called in our law-French a feme-covert; is said to be covert-baron, or under the protection and influence of her husband, her baron, or lord; and her condition during her marriage is called her coverture. Upon this principle, of a union of person in husband and wife, depend almost all the legal rights, duties, and disabilities, that either of them acquire by the marriage. I speak not at present of the rights of property, but of such as are merely personal. For this reason, a man cannot grant any thing to his wife, or enter into covenant with her: for the grant would be to suppose her separate existence; and to covenant with her, would be only to covenant with himself: and therefore it is also generally true, that all compacts made between husband and wife, when single, are voided by the intermarriage. A /feme covert/ was not recognized as having legal rights and obligations distinct from those of her husband in most respects. Instead, through marriage a woman's existence was incorporated into that of her husband, so that she had very few recognized individual rights of her own. A husband and wife were one person as far as the law was concerned, and that person was the husband. A married woman could not own property, sign legal documents or enter into a contract, obtain an education against her husband's wishes, or keep a salary for herself. If a wife was permitted to work, under the laws of coverture, she was required to relinquish her wages to her husband. In certain cases, a wife did not have individual legal liability for her misdeeds since it was legally assumed that she was acting under the orders of her husband, and generally a husband and a wife were not allowed to testify either for or against each other. Hence, it was common practice, whenever a wife absconded, to issue such notices in newspapers, to put pressure on her to return. More info on the wiki page, and a reminder of what Mr Bumble had to say about this law :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coverture Colin

I too was disappointed that they have used the BTs from The Borthwick rather than the original register. I only took out a subscription to FMP because they had these and now find that the information I'd hoped for isn't there. The first entry I looked at for one of my family at St Mary Bishophill Junior, didn't even have the child's name on the baptism whereas I have a full entry from years ago of name, dob, date of baptism, parents and grandparents. Yvonne --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

Nick I would disagree that Parish Registers are always better than BT's.  I have found some info in BTs that are not always in the PRs and I have also found info in PRs that are not always in BTs.  You also have to remember that in some cases the only records in a parish will be the BTs.  In the Parish of Acklam, the Parish Registers don't start til 1716, but there are BTs before that date.  Granted, going back further, the records are not complete.  The farther back you go, the harder it is to read anything.  Take a look at the Genuki website for Yorkshire as Colin Blanshard Withers has given info on every parish in Yorkshire as to the types of records that are available and where.  http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ You mention that the Parish Registers gave you the names of the grandparents.  However, don't credit that to "Parish Registers" and think that all Parish Registers give that type of info.  The info you gleaned from that is because it is part of the Dade Registers.  Not all parishes had Dade Registers and they were only up to a certain period of time.  I agree that the info from Dade Registers is fantastic especially when families may be living in a different parish. Janet From: Nick Higton via <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 5:25 AM Subject: [YORKSGEN] Dade Registers and Bishop's Transcripts - BARNBY of York I've been doing some research into the BARNBY family of York, initially using Find My Past's collection of York Parish Registers, and have found that in many cases it is the Bishop's Transcript images and their FMP transcriptions that have been added to the site, when the Parish Registers will almost certainly contain more information. I first realised this when I cross-checked on Ancestry for the baptism of Samuel BARNBY, on 09 August 1785 at St Sampson's, and found two transcription entries. The first, from a collection entitled "England, Select Births and Christenings 1538-1975" gave his birth and baptism dates plus his father's fore- and surname, and his mother's forename. This information is identical to that on FMP. The second, from a collection entitled "England & Wales Christening Records 1530-1906" gave the same information, plus his mother's maiden name, and the names of both paternal grandfathers. The latter is obviously invaluable when trying to confirm that you have found the correct ancestors for someone. I'm assuming that this is a transcription of the PR, so I now need to find and check a microfilm or digital copy of the original register. In other instances, I've found that the transcription omits vital information that is clearly visible on the original register image. It's obvious, but I'd recommend always to check the original Parish Register, if it still exists, rather than relying on transcriptions or BTs, both of which are prone to transcription errors or just omitting information, as the process of producing an Ancestry or FMP transcription involves a number of stages, at any of which errors/omissions can be introduced: 1. The clergyman writes information in the Parish Register, relying upon often illiterate parents, and sometimes without the diligence that might be expected 2. At the year end, he or another parish officer has the boring, administrative job of compiling the Bishop's Transcripts, so he may decide to copy just the minimum information needed, without necessarily being too bothered about accuracy, and also by possibly having to interpret someone else's scrawled handwriting 3. Years later, another person tries to read the BT (more scrawled handwriting, and possibly a microfilm copy of dubious quality!), and copy the information into a format suitable for being printed. This may be typed, or be yet another manuscript 4. The typesetter at the printers prepares the blocks ready for printing, and a proof of this is checked for accuracy, but maybe by yet another person 5. Ancestry, FMP etc.  type their transcript (or maybe use an Optical Character Recognition program) into a computer to put online, possibly using the PR or BT, but possibly instead using the printed transcript 6. This information is put online to be lapped up by a sometimes un-sceptical audience Someone could probably work out the statistical probability of the information at step 6 being identical to that at step 1, but I bet it is low enough not to use it as the basis for, potentially, years of wasted effort researching the wrong family, for wont of reading the original parish registers. Don't get me wrong, I'm a great fan of the online information provided by Ancestry, FMP etc., as it saves a lot of time and effort if used correctly. But, as was said of the IGI years ago, it is best used as a finding aid, and cannot be relied upon to be accurate.     ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message