Looks like we will need another vote. Rootsweb is considering putting list archives on the web. Here is what they have to say. Let me know which way you want our Yoder list to go. ginseng@sssnet.com ginseng@tccbbs.com >Sorry to have been virtually absent in the discussion of archiving >messages. Life has been pretty much on hold for me for weeks, first >getting ready to go to Chile to visit the nephew, then going to Chile, >then coming back with food poisoning, then spending one whole day at >the office before coming down with the flu. At RAND, it's probably >now "Karen who? Does she still work here?" > >Marc and Brian and I have talked (using that ancient technology, >the telephone), and here's the current scoop on message archives for >RootsWeb mailing lists. It won't all take effect for a week or two, >so to the extent you want to survey the readers of your respective >mailing lists for their opinions, you'll have time. > >1. Once the new (web-based) system is on line, we will be turning off the >old (e-mail based) system of accessing archives. Experience has shown >that it is hard on the system (uses too many CPU cycles on large lists), >and hard on the user (difficult to understand, tricky syntax) and hard >on the system administrators (I'm going to =scream= the next time some >listowner has a list member write to me to get personalized instruction >on how to search the archives via e-mail, because the listowner doesn't >want to be bothered.) Once the new tools are in place, this old horse >is going to be put out to pasture. (I know that not everyone has web >access -- you might want to have a few volunteers on each list who will >do lookups for those without web access.) > >2. So, what's the new web-based system to be? Evolving, for a start. >In the initial phases, for those lists that are participating, the >most recent messages will be available via the web in a threaded >format. (This is what Marc has been working on.) The older messages >(including the old Maiser archives) will be available via a clunky >search engine (like that used for ROOTS-L on http://searches.rootsweb.com). >(I've been working on this, at least, until I got diverted by all that >stuff up there in the first paragraph.) We hope to do two additional >things: find a new search engine that will index both the threaded and >unthreaded message bases, and as time allows, convert the unthreaded >message bases to threaded. There are some open issues here that we >haven't worked through yet, so it will be awhile, but that's the target. > >3. What about passwords? These have proven much more controversial >than I ever expected. I do understand (shoot, I pushed for them) why >they are useful and solve a lot of problems. The difficulty is that >they seem to introduce at least as many problems as they solve. Some >of which hit closer to home than I like (such as whiney letters to >webspinner@rootsweb.com asking what the password is). Anything that >requires more work from the system administration people is almost >guaranteed to be a non-starter, and passwords unfortunately fit that >criteria. Besides having to deal with people who can't remember passwords >or who type them in the wrong case, etc., there's also the problem >that to change a password will require manual intervention (we haven't >developed the software yet so the listowner could do so automatically), >and a password that is stable and never changed isn't much security. >If your archived messages need to be secure, a simple password won't >be enough to secure them. If your archive messages don't need to be >secure, then there's no need for a password. Bottomline: passwords >make more work, but add little additional security. So, no passwords, at >least not for now, probably never. > >4. Can you edit the archives? No, at least, not now. The tools >to let you do so aren't available, and the time for someone (me) to >do it for you is in too short of supply. Except for cases of >egregious copyright violation, death threats, etc, I won't be >available to edit your archives for you. I know this means there >will be some cruft, subscribe/unsubscribe commands, reposted digests, >spam, etc. For most lists, even with the cruft, the signal to noise >ratio will still be quite high. > >5. Does your list have to participate? No. If you don't want your >list included, go to the utility page for your mailing list, follow >the button at the bottom labelled "edit selected files" and add to your >reject list the address "archiver@lists.rootsweb.com". (If you go to >your utility page, and you don't have a button like that at the >bottom, then and only then, write to listmaster@rootsweb.com and ask >that the address archiver@lists.rootsweb.com be added to the reject >list for your mailing list. Be sure to say what mailing list.) Note >that, if your list doesn't participate in the web-based archives, >there will be no access to your archives unless you make alternative >arrangements (for instance, through your ISP) to provide such. If you >decide you do want to set up your own message archive elsewhere, we >will zip up your old archives here (including the old messages from >Maiser, if any) and put them somewhere so you can FTP them. Not all >lists want archives (hi, Wally!): if that describes your list, just >opt out of the web-based archives, and voila!, you're set. > >6. What if you have a single hothead who doesn't want his/her messages >included? You have some options. a) You can simply not participate. >b) You can tell him/her tough, and go ahead and participate. c) You can >ask that we not include your material from before the cutover (see >below), and tell your hothead that anything he/she posts after the >cutover will be included. (For the third case, send a letter to >listmaster@rootsweb.com, etc. etc.) > >Target date for the cutover: 1 December 1997. That should provide time >for you to touch base with your listmembers (if you so desire), and >for us to further shakedown the scripts that will be used to make >all this happen. Marc's beta-test will probably be back online before >then. > >Karen > > > ==== YODER Mailing List ==== Volunteers wanted with Library Access--to copy Census and other Yoder data to add to our archives--write: Chris Yoder