Diana wrote: Forgive me, but I don't understand. How is it that the people being tested aren't aware of the NPE? Don't they see that their own results don't match other lines in the family? Carol Vass writes: On surname projects which clearly have multiple origins of the surname, NPEs would not be so obvious. The BERRY, ALEXANDER and DILLON projects that I am involved with are all open to any men with those surnames. BERRY and ALEXANDER each have 110+ participants and each have -- roughly -- 40+ distinct and separate lineages. [DILLON has 15 participants, with 11 separate lineages.] On the BERRY project, I know that we have three proven NPEs. I would say about four more people don't match their 'expected' BERRY family, but it is more likely that the participant (or sponsor) has a flaw in their paper trail rather than an NPE. It could well be that there are some men who don't match anyone on the project because they are NPEs, but we have no way of knowing. This discussion is providing an interesting perspective between projects with multiple origins of the surname compared to those dedicated to one specific origin of the surname. I find myself having to explain the random adoption of surnames repeatedly. It's a difficult concept to accept for many participants. It was difficult for me to grasp initially!! When the BERRY project started in 2003, we thought all the BERRYs with paper trails to colonial America would surely be closely related which has turned out to be distinctly NOT the case. It is one of the most powerful lessons I take away from Y- DNA testing -- same surname/same geographical place in the same time frame does NOT -- necessarily -- mean a close genetic relationship. Carol Vass Kent, WA

Carol, Yes, they do see how their DNA test results don't match others. That is how they become aware of the NPE. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Carol Vass > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 7:58 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] out of wedlock births, adoptions, etc. > > Diana wrote: > Forgive me, but I don't understand. How is it that the people being > tested aren't aware of the NPE? Don't they see that their own > results don't match other lines in the family? >