1. If you walk down the Y-DNA haplotree, from the top, you will see that L23 appears before L21. http://dgmweb.net/DNA/SNPcharts/R1b_2010-02-12.shtml 2. It would be extraordinary, even in subclades of haplogroup R, for members of the same family who are matching at levels of 65/67 and 66/67 to be in different subclades. Are you certain all three were tested recently? If K9HKQ was tested some time ago, it might have been before the L21 test was being offered. If you are in a position to check the member page of K9HKQ, I would double-check to see if L21 is really L21- or if it simply hasn't been tested yet. If it has been tested, and the result is negative, I would contact FTDNA and ask them to retest K9HKQ for L21 and explain the reason he should be L21+. As for the differences at 464 and CDY, these would be typical for near family members as those are probably the most volatile of all markers in the standard 67. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: y-dna-projects-bounces@rootsweb.com On Behalf Of Karen Johnson > Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 10:04 AM > To: y-dna-projects@rootsweb.com > Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] Two Questions > > 1. Is L23 older than L21? > > I have three very close matching individuals at 67Markers. > All three have just recently had Deep Clade Testing done. > All three have L23, but only two have L21. > > Person 1 has L21 & L23 and differs at 464b by 2 > Person 2 has L23 only > Person 3 has L21 & L23 and differs at CDYa by 1 > > Y-Search #1 4YH5F > #2 K9HKQ > #3 ARZ7R > > 2. Which between #2 and #3, is the closest match to #1? > > Names don't matter as #1 is an NPE. > > Hope this isn't too confusing! > > Karen > > > > > Y-DNA - R1b1b2a1b5 - L21 > mtDNA - H1 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-PROJECTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message >