No its in a separate spot under Genetic Reports about half way down bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fredric Z. Saunders" <fzsaund@ix.netcom.com> To: <y-dna-projects@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 12:42 PM Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] new Gap 2.0 > Under the old system, when you were on the project member information > page, > you could click on "report" and it would give the genetic distance from > other people in the project. I am not seeing that anywhere on the new > GAP. > Am I missing it, or is it hidden somewhere? > > Rick Saunders > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-PROJECTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 5155 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Thank Bob, I see it. It appears they only now show the genetic distance from matches, and not all project members. The latter was handy when a project member believes they have a paper trail to those of an established lineage, and by a quick check you could explain they don't match that lineage because they are a genetic distance of 16 on 37 markers from it. Now it means either counting (or miscounting which is easy to do), or just saying "you are not a close match." Members understand it better when you can quantify it with the genetic distance. Rick Saunders -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-projects-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-projects-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bob May Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:55 PM To: y-dna-projects@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] new Gap 2.0 No its in a separate spot under Genetic Reports about half way down bob

Rick asked about a genetic distance tool in the new GAP 2.0. I think we're all just trying to find out where things are in this new interface. Maybe, the old stuff is still there, but under new names in new places. There is a "Y-DNA TiP" choice under "Genetic Reports", which calculates TNRCA between two project participants selected from pick lists. IMHO, this is a clunky approach if a project has more than a few participants. I'd prefer the ability to select one participant and find matches by genetic distance. -ralpht_/)

Under the old system, when you were on the project member information page, you could click on "report" and it would give the genetic distance from other people in the project. I am not seeing that anywhere on the new GAP. Am I missing it, or is it hidden somewhere? Rick Saunders

Thanks to all who responded to my query, both on-list and off. Your information and advice was very helpful. After carefully considering all the input, including from my co-administrators, we decided to use a combination naming pattern: 1. The first part of the group name is the haplogroup (to two or three characters); 2. Next is a dash as a separator; 3. Then there's the order found, a two-digit number. Typical group names are I1-01 and R1b-39. When sorted, this gets all the Es together, then the Is, then Js, etc. Like is with like. Retaining the order found number helps the 150+ members formerly in groups find their groups. They don't have to learn a whole new system, but simply look for their group number within the appropriate haplogroup. We've now implemented this system. -ralpht_/)

I organize project members by haplogroup (or subclade), first, then by family, second. It's one reason I press at least one member of each family to be deep SNP tested, so it breaks up Haplogroup R1b and makes organizing them easier. In the case of my surname projects, this is an example of how I group members in the FTDNA version of the web site: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/corbin/default.aspx?section=yresults In this case, each haplogroup subclade is also a family. On my version of the project web site, I provide a "Legend to Progenitors": http://dgmweb.net/DNA/Corbin/CorbinDNA-results.html#Progenitors And, at the top of this page, a navigation bar to the different haplogroups. I think if you're going to group your members, you should make the groups useful, which usually means grouping them by their genetic relatedness, not some arbitrary designation. The haplogroup is a great tool for organizing haplotypes. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: y-dna-projects-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-projects- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ralph Taylor > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 6:53 PM > To: y-dna-projects@rootsweb.com > Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] Designating Groups > > I'd like to ask how other projects name or designate the groups or clusters they find. > Are there any really great ideas out there? > > Our Taylor project is currently doing it by number in the order we find them. Thus > the first found is "Group 01" and the most recent is "Group 41". > > A couple of us aren't thrilled by our system; it results in jumping from one > haplogroup to another. (01 is haplogroup I1, 02 is R1b.) Given the re-education job > needed if we change, we can probably afford to change only once. > > I'm aware that our sister project (Ancestry DNA's Taylor project) uses the name of the > earliest-joined project member in the group, e.g., "Closely related to John Doe > Taylor". > > What other systems are there? What's good about them? What are the drawbacks? > > I'd appreciate the feedback. > -rt_/) > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-PROJECTS- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > and the body of the message

Ralph, I manage seven projects, only one of which is of sufficient size for this subject to be relevant, the White yDNA Project at FTDNA. First, I identified family groups with a known common ancestor. I identified the group by the common ancestor's name, and prefixed the name with an "A", so these family groups would sort first. Next, I identified family groups where no common ancestor is known, but there are genetic matches. These are called White Family 99999, with the 99999 being the appropriate number. These groups are numbered as found, and I left out the number 13, in case someone took exception to being assigned that number. The rest of the project members, who do not have matches are in two main groups by haplogroup. Those project members who have done the 37 or 67 marker test are grouped by haplogroup, with the prefix "Y" in front of the haplogroup name. Those project members with 12 or 25 marker tests are grouped by haplogroup with an "X" prefix in front of the haplogroup name. When you look at the yResults page, you see the results listed in this order: Family groups with a known common ancestor, Family groups with an unidentified common ancestor Project members without matches who have done a 37 or 67 marker test Project members without matches who have done a 12 or 25 marker test. I only place test results in family groups if they have a 37 or 67 marker test, or in the process of upgrading to at least 37 markers and the initial markers, 12 or 25 are a match with the family group. If they complain, I explain the a 12 or 25 marker test does not provide enough genetic information to confirm a family relationship. There is currently one group on the page listed as tentative, and one member may have to be removed. At 25 markers, this looked like a genuine family group. When creating family groups, I do my own analysis, and compare my conclusions to what FTDNA has on an individual's Matches page. There are times when FTDNA misses a match in the rare instance of a multi-step mutation, that puts an individual over their limit. The White project has over 300 members, so no matter how you organize the information, individuals are hard to find in the list. I use the Firefox browser. At the top of the screen under edit is a find command. I put the kit # or a unique name in the search box, and am usually where I want to be before I finish keying the information in. There is really no right or wrong way to organize the test results, except for not organizing them at all. Pick and choose from all of the suggestions and find a system that works for you and your project members. I think that since I organized the yResults in this way in May, we have had a number of people upgrade their test, and we have had about 10 new members join. I also started a White-DNA mail list at RootsWeb, and encouraged the project members to join. On the mail list, I tell them when new family groups have been created, or a new set of results added to an existing family, the individuals are identified by kit number, NEVER by name I also used the mail list to explain the organization of the yResults, and I answer general question there to help individuals understand their test results. Specific questions I answer privately. Marleen Van Horne White yDNA Project and others

Oooooh! Good question!! I've seen projects which group first by haplogroup, then by Lineage 1, Lineage 2. The group where I co-admin, it was initially set up by founding couple, but then, everybody is pretty much R1b1b2. In the tiny group I manage myself, we so far have R1b1b2 and J2; the first is clearly English, the second French, and are so labeled. Lisa On Sep 29, 2010, at 3:53 PM, Ralph Taylor wrote: > I'd like to ask how other projects name or designate the groups or clusters > they find. Are there any really great ideas out there? > > Our Taylor project is currently doing it by number in the order we find > them. Thus the first found is "Group 01" and the most recent is "Group 41". > > A couple of us aren't thrilled by our system; it results in jumping from one > haplogroup to another. (01 is haplogroup I1, 02 is R1b.) Given the > re-education job needed if we change, we can probably afford to change only > once. > > I'm aware that our sister project (Ancestry DNA's Taylor project) uses the > name of the earliest-joined project member in the group, e.g., "Closely > related to John Doe Taylor". > > What other systems are there? What's good about them? What are the > drawbacks? > > I'd appreciate the feedback. > -rt_/)

I'd like to ask how other projects name or designate the groups or clusters they find. Are there any really great ideas out there? Our Taylor project is currently doing it by number in the order we find them. Thus the first found is "Group 01" and the most recent is "Group 41". A couple of us aren't thrilled by our system; it results in jumping from one haplogroup to another. (01 is haplogroup I1, 02 is R1b.) Given the re-education job needed if we change, we can probably afford to change only once. I'm aware that our sister project (Ancestry DNA's Taylor project) uses the name of the earliest-joined project member in the group, e.g., "Closely related to John Doe Taylor". What other systems are there? What's good about them? What are the drawbacks? I'd appreciate the feedback. -rt_/)

Tracy have a look at Y search for entering a new account and there is a conversion there to bring them to FTDNA values bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tracy Denny" <tdenny1@comcast.net> To: <y-dna-projects@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 2:34 AM Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] Proper Nomenclature - one for the pros. > Hi All, > > I have been taking care of the spreadsheets for a small surname > Y-DNA > project. I have no problem with what I am doing; making values match > between > Heritage DNA & FTDNA (and others). I have all the correction numbers necc. > to do > this. At the current time I have been converting them to Heritage values, > as > that is the way it has been done since the project started. We are > currently > advising new members to test with FTDNA, trying to eliminate some of the > problems that crop up. We can also get more markers tested this way, since > we > are largely a R1b1b2 type group. Soon, I will convert the DYS values in > question > to the FTDNA format... depending on how my question is answered. It would > save > me a great deal of time if one of the pro admins. could help me with the > amswer/s. > > Ques.: In order for the various databases to jive, what is the correct > nomenclature to use. Is FTDNA using the proper values or is this a huge > mess > between the various test vendors & databases? If this has been discussed > in > detail before, pointing me to a thread or web link would be fine. > > Thanks! > > Tracy W. Denny (Denney) > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-PROJECTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 4989 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 16:18:37 -0400, you wrote: >Hello Tracy, > >The genetic genealogy community is moving toward the NIST (National Institute of >Standards and Technology) / ISOGG (International Society of Genetic Genealogy) >standard: >http://www.isogg.org/ > >The number of conversion factors needed to convert from one lab to another has >steadily gone down and will continue to do so. Which standard you use, now, >depends in part what you're doing. I admin six projects at FTDNA, so it's a >slam dunk that I use FTDNA standards and convert results from other labs to it. > >In your case, as you have been using DNA-Heritage standards, I would continue to >do so because they are already NIST/ISOGG compliant, as least for the markers >given in this table at SMGF: >http://www.smgf.org/ychromosome/marker_standards.jspx Understand. I have those figures and have made corrections using them and possibly others (there are always that odd few), so it looks like I have been on target as far as what I have been doing. > >Be careful with regard to when tests were taken. Reporting standards have >changed over time at the same lab, as indicated on this page of conversion >factors: >http://www.ysearch.org/conversion_page.asp I have ran into this as well... thanks for the link. As a matter of fact thanks for all the links, they're great. > >If you want to delve more deeply into existing online discussions of this issue, >I would recommend searching the archive of GENEALOGY-DNA: >http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/DNA/GENEALOGY-DNA.html I monitor that already... although I just skim it, because of time constraints. > >Diana Thanks so much Diana, that was a very clear and concise guide for me. Looks like I'm doing fine with it. I just absolutely wanted to know from someone who had been there and done it, so I can deliver the best material & advice for our members. Sincerely, Tracy W. Denny > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: y-dna-projects-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-projects- >> bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tracy Denny >> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:35 PM >> To: y-dna-projects@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] Proper Nomenclature - one for the pros. >> >> Hi All, >> >> I have been taking care of the spreadsheets for a small surname Y-DNA >project. I >> have no problem with what I am doing; making values match between Heritage DNA >& >> FTDNA (and others). I have all the correction numbers necc. to do this. At the >current >> time I have been converting them to Heritage values, as that is the way it has >been >> done since the project started. We are currently advising new members to test >with >> FTDNA, trying to eliminate some of the problems that crop up. We can also get >more >> markers tested this way, since we are largely a R1b1b2 type group. Soon, I >will >> convert the DYS values in question to the FTDNA format... depending on how my >> question is answered. It would save me a great deal of time if one of the pro >admins. >> could help me with the amswer/s. >> >> Ques.: In order for the various databases to jive, what is the correct >nomenclature to >> use. Is FTDNA using the proper values or is this a huge mess between the >various test >> vendors & databases? If this has been discussed in detail before, pointing me >to a >> thread or web link would be fine. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Tracy W. Denny (Denney) >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-PROJECTS- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >subject >> and the body of the message > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-PROJECTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Tracy, The genetic genealogy community is moving toward the NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) / ISOGG (International Society of Genetic Genealogy) standard: http://www.isogg.org/ The number of conversion factors needed to convert from one lab to another has steadily gone down and will continue to do so. Which standard you use, now, depends in part what you're doing. I admin six projects at FTDNA, so it's a slam dunk that I use FTDNA standards and convert results from other labs to it. In your case, as you have been using DNA-Heritage standards, I would continue to do so because they are already NIST/ISOGG compliant, as least for the markers given in this table at SMGF: http://www.smgf.org/ychromosome/marker_standards.jspx Be careful with regard to when tests were taken. Reporting standards have changed over time at the same lab, as indicated on this page of conversion factors: http://www.ysearch.org/conversion_page.asp If you want to delve more deeply into existing online discussions of this issue, I would recommend searching the archive of GENEALOGY-DNA: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/DNA/GENEALOGY-DNA.html Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: y-dna-projects-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-projects- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tracy Denny > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:35 PM > To: y-dna-projects@rootsweb.com > Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] Proper Nomenclature - one for the pros. > > Hi All, > > I have been taking care of the spreadsheets for a small surname Y-DNA project. I > have no problem with what I am doing; making values match between Heritage DNA & > FTDNA (and others). I have all the correction numbers necc. to do this. At the current > time I have been converting them to Heritage values, as that is the way it has been > done since the project started. We are currently advising new members to test with > FTDNA, trying to eliminate some of the problems that crop up. We can also get more > markers tested this way, since we are largely a R1b1b2 type group. Soon, I will > convert the DYS values in question to the FTDNA format... depending on how my > question is answered. It would save me a great deal of time if one of the pro admins. > could help me with the amswer/s. > > Ques.: In order for the various databases to jive, what is the correct nomenclature to > use. Is FTDNA using the proper values or is this a huge mess between the various test > vendors & databases? If this has been discussed in detail before, pointing me to a > thread or web link would be fine. > > Thanks! > > Tracy W. Denny (Denney) > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-PROJECTS- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > and the body of the message

Hi All, I have been taking care of the spreadsheets for a small surname Y-DNA project. I have no problem with what I am doing; making values match between Heritage DNA & FTDNA (and others). I have all the correction numbers necc. to do this. At the current time I have been converting them to Heritage values, as that is the way it has been done since the project started. We are currently advising new members to test with FTDNA, trying to eliminate some of the problems that crop up. We can also get more markers tested this way, since we are largely a R1b1b2 type group. Soon, I will convert the DYS values in question to the FTDNA format... depending on how my question is answered. It would save me a great deal of time if one of the pro admins. could help me with the amswer/s. Ques.: In order for the various databases to jive, what is the correct nomenclature to use. Is FTDNA using the proper values or is this a huge mess between the various test vendors & databases? If this has been discussed in detail before, pointing me to a thread or web link would be fine. Thanks! Tracy W. Denny (Denney)

Colin, I don't know of one, although, once you become an admin at FTDNA, there are some guidelines as to how to use your GAP. I would suggest the person join Y-DNA-PROJECTS and ask questions. Given that you have just asked for her, I will begin with what I consider some important considerations... Depending on how common the surname is, doing a good job of running a surname project can be modestly time-consuming to a black hole for your time. It's not a commitment to take on lightly. Whether the surname is common or not, to be a good admin, you need to be prepared to learn the technical details attached to testing for genealogical purposes. You don't need to learn everything all at once, but your members will be asking you questions that you're going to have to educate yourself to answer. You also need to learn enough to recognize things your members don't recognize as significant. It's nothing you can't learn, but if technical details make your brain go into hibernate mode, you may not enjoy being an admin -- or may not do a good job of it. On the up side, if you're serious about genealogy; pick a surname that is important to you, personally; like doing research; and love solving puzzles, you will get a great deal of enjoyment and gratification out of running your project well. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: y-dna-projects-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-projects- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Colin Ferguson > Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 12:27 PM > To: Y-DNA-PROJECTS@rootsweb.com > Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] How To Admin A Project > > I know someone contemplating adopting a surname project. She wants to know if > there is an online guide of what being an admin entails. > Anyone know of such a thing? > Colin > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-PROJECTS- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > and the body of the message

Hi Colin - The few sources I know are aimed at new projects as well as new admins, but I'll include links in case they may be of interest. The Admin Menu at the ISOGG site http://www.isogg.org/. *For Admins* *For DNA Project Administrators <goog_983516221>** - menu <goog_983516196>* *DNA Project Communication Methods Comparison* *DNA Project Website Resources & Info Template* *Genographic Project Resources* *Genographic Project Tips* *Looking For Board* *New DNA Projects Established* *Peer Review* *Promoting Your DNA Project* *Starting a Geographical or Heritage DNA Project* *Tools and Resources* *Vendor Comparison from a DNA Project Administrator Perspective* There is also an old post on Emily Aulicino's blog aimed at new admins http://genealem-geneticgenealogy.blogspot.com/2009/02/soyou-are-newbie-dna-administrator.html If the project in question is a World Families project, there is useful information in the links at the upper left of the page http://www.worldfamilies.net/ <http://genealem-geneticgenealogy.blogspot.com/2009/02/soyou-are-newbie-dna-administrator.html> Sharon On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Colin Ferguson <colin.fergie@gmail.com>wrote: > I know someone contemplating adopting a surname project. She wants to > know if there is an online guide of what being an admin entails. > Anyone know of such a thing? > Colin > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-PROJECTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Look at: http://www.worldfamilies.net/becomepa and some related links there. That is written specifically for those hosted at WorldFamilies, but it will give them an idea of what is involved. Rick Saunders

I know someone contemplating adopting a surname project. She wants to know if there is an online guide of what being an admin entails. Anyone know of such a thing? Colin

Rick You might find this page of interest in the ISOGG Wiki: http://www.isogg.org/wiki/Null_value Make sure you join the relevant null marker project. The project admin might be able to give you further information. Debbie Kennett

Thanks. I will pass this on to the member. It is a null 425. Rick Saunders

OK, a result came in for one of my projects that has a null marker. I understand what they are, and that they are rare, but how rare? I tried to find something about the frequency with which they occur, but didn't find anything. Next, the statement from FTDNA regarding the null marker is: "A value "0" for any marker indicates that the lab reported a null value or no result for this marker. All cases of this nature are retested multiple times by the lab to confirm their accuracy. Mutations causing null values are infrequent, but are passed on to offspring just like other mutations, so related male lineages such as a father and son would **likely** share any null values." The emphasis on the word "likely" is mine. Does that mean that a null marker can mutate back to a number between generations? Or does it mean that for some reason the null marker in this case was not actually a mutation? Say grandfather has a value of 12, son has a null marker, could the grandson have a 12? Rick Saunders