The best choice is always obvious with the benefit of hindsight. The choices available today, both in terms of the number of labs offering genetic testing for genealogists and in the number and kinds of tests available, are very different, now, than they were, for example, back in 2004 when I started my first projects. SMGF was the leader in gaining acceptance of DNA testing and, as a free alternative to commercial labs offering fewer markers at considerably higher prices than today, being tested at a commercial lab was by no means the obviously better choice. For one thing, the shakedown that has occurred in the industry -- leaving FTDNA and Ancestry as the major competitors -- had yet to happen, and it wasn't clear, then, which labs would survive. In 2004, Ancestry wasn't even in the DNA testing business and Ysearch didn't exist, yet. In fact, your decision on where to be tested was based largely on which company had a project for your surname, not which company was "better," because there weren't remotely the number of surname projects, then, that there are, today. Thousands of people made the decision to test at SMGF, and thank heavens they did, because their testing played a large part in establishing the legitimacy of DNA testing -- and it continues to be a useful database. Back when the testing at SMGF was still free, I even advised my FTDNA project members to also test at SMGF, just to pick up the nine extra markers without having to pay the $65 to test them as "Advanced" markers from FTDNA. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: y-dna-projects-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-projects- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ralph Taylor > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 2:22 PM > To: y-dna-projects@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] Y-DNA-PROJECTS The view from the outside looking in > > Diana's response to Billie was thorough & accurate and gave good suggestions to a > person tested by a provider that doesn't provide as much support as others. I'd like to > give a little different context though. > > To me, Billie's complaint arises from not having had the information needed to make an > informed choice at the time. (It's not that SMGF is bad; it's that the choice isn't meeting > Billie's needs.) Hopefully, we can steer other beginners in a direction that helps them > achieve what they want. > > I was recently asked by my local genealogy & history society to give a presentation on > "DNA genealogy", forcing me to look at it from the absolute beginner's perspective. It's > necessary to explicitly say things more expert folks might take for granted and to put > those things into an easily-grasped framework. > > The presentation describes genetic genealogy as a process, with several steps to it. The > first step is choosing which type of test or tests (Y-STR, mtDNA, etc.) will meet your > genealogical needs. The very next step is the choice of a test provider. ("Provider" means > who you order from -- FTDNA, Ancestry DNA, 23andMe, SMGF, etc.) Once you've chosen a > provider, you'll likely have to live with the choice a while. > > There are many providers to choose from; lab accuracy is pretty much a "wash" and price > shouldn't be the main concern. Almost all providers restrict access to their results > databases; in general, paid customers get better access than the public. > > IMHO, genealogical DNA test providers' major differences are in three areas: > > 1. Size of the databases (Bigger is better.) 2. "After-market" service -- what's available to > you after the provider has your money and has reported the results. Some providers > have more service, some less. (These costs are built into your test price.) 3. Projects -- > joining a suitable project has many benefits. > > The Y-STR section talks about test results being mostly meaningless in isolation; they > take on meaning only in comparison with others'. The purpose of a Y-STR test is to find a > match or matches, in order to communicate and share information -- hopefully leading to > identification of the common male ancestor. Some providers make that easier, some > don't. > > So, the advice to the beginner is "Look before you leap" and consider the impact provider > choice may have on realization of your desired outcome. > > However, there are alternatives if your provider doesn't facilitate match-finding. There > are a few free public (or semi-public) online databases that accept results from multiple > providers and allow searches. Two are www.ysearch.org and www.ybase.org. You > establish an account, agree to the terms, manually enter your results (converting them to > a common reporting > protocol) & then search for matches. These may not be as satisfactory as some provider- > hosted services, but they give you an "out". > > Or, check on www.worldfamilies.net & see if they have a Walsh (or other > surname) project. Then check with the project to see if your Sorenson results can be > included. > > -ralpht_/) > > PS to Billie -- HTML analogy: If you put many 3MB images on your web page, the slow > loading is a consequence of the image choices. > _ _... ..._ _ > T B V T > _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ > K A 5 (H?) L S U > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-PROJECTS- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > and the body of the message

Of course one huge irritant regarding 'poorly managed projects' is that results appearing in the FTDNA Results page which clearly belong in one of the already-established categories may not be moved there for months, or ever Richard Thrift ---- Diana Gale Matthiesen <DianaGM@dgmweb.net> wrote: ... For projects using the web site provided by FTDNA, the update of results is automatic, without intervention from the listadmin. The results appear as soon as they return, which is just one reason I suggest all project admins make the FTDNA site visible, even if they have a second project web site elsewhere. That way, someone anxiously awaiting results still gets them ASAP -- even if you have an unexpected absence, such as a family emergency. ...

Debbie, Ralph, AND Charles, I appreciate all the info on the comparison. Of course the killer is the advantage 67 markers has over "46" markers. My own line would be hard to distinguish from WAMH at ancestry.com. (I'm not sure the provider comparison at the ISOGG wiki presents a dismal enough picture of Ancestry.com's service for newcomers who may not know any better.) One point that is not common knowledge: For access to the Ancestry.com database, a free Ancestry.com "Registered Guest" account suffices. Paid or subscription accounts, at either Ancestry.com or myfamily.com, are NOT required. So FTDNA customers, as has been pointed out, may benefit by searching for matches at ancestry.com -but THIS MAY BE DONE FOR FREE. In fact I have set up a group there, with having only the "Registered Guest" status. I have had a "Registered Guest" account for years, so I know it can be done, but when I wanted to describe how to obtain one, I could not find ANY mention of it at Ancestry.com, even by doing a google site search for the term. I also had a hard time (but not nearly so hard) finding the link to manually enter a DNA haplotype into their database. I've edited the article Debbie mentioned, http://www.isogg.org/wiki/Ancestry.com_DNA , so the links are shown explicitly there. Richard Thrift ---- Debbie Kennett <debbiekennett@aol.com> wrote: I fully agree with Ralph's comments on the advantages of FTDNA vs. Ancestry. There are many additional benefits at FTDNA which Ralph hasn't covered. First and foremost is the ability to upgrade and order additional markers. Currently a 67-marker test is available which is essential for deciding whether or not a match with another surname is meaningful. Some time next year additional markers will be available bringing the total up to over 100 markers. The reporting of micro alleles (eg, 13.3, 14.2) will also further help to refine matches. Micro-alleles will be introduced when the FTDNA database is upgraded in line with the NIST guidelines next spring. I don't believe Ancestry even report micro-alleles....

On 12/06/2010 01:21 PM, Ralph Taylor wrote: > To me, Billie's complaint arises from not having had the information needed > to make an informed choice at the time. (It's not that SMGF is bad; it's > that the choice isn't meeting Billie's needs.) Hopefully, we can steer other > beginners in a direction that helps them achieve what they want. > <snip> As I wrote in another message, it wasn't so much a choice of who as a donation to the cause, as it were. DNA Genealogy was in it's bare infancy fifteen years ago. There was no promise that whatever results they found would ever be released to me. If I had the funds and wished to do it I would make a choice. Now there is much better information to base choices on. > > > PS to Billie -- HTML analogy: If you put many 3MB images on your web page, > the slow loading is a consequence of the image choices. > _ _... ..._ _ > T B V T > _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ > K A 5 (H?) L S U > If I did it differently it looks like __... ...__ You have to have the space in there for it to work, _ _... ..._ _ is 73. ..... is 5, .... is H. -- "A good moral character is the first essential in a man." George Washington _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._

Just to let everyone know. I contacted Billie right away and has already been added to our Walsh project. Kim Coleman Admin Walsh DNA Project -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-projects-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-projects-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ralph Taylor Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 2:22 PM To: y-dna-projects@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] Y-DNA-PROJECTS The view from the outside looking in Diana's response to Billie was thorough & accurate and gave good suggestions to a person tested by a provider that doesn't provide as much support as others. I'd like to give a little different context though. To me, Billie's complaint arises from not having had the information needed to make an informed choice at the time. (It's not that SMGF is bad; it's that the choice isn't meeting Billie's needs.) Hopefully, we can steer other beginners in a direction that helps them achieve what they want. I was recently asked by my local genealogy & history society to give a presentation on "DNA genealogy", forcing me to look at it from the absolute beginner's perspective. It's necessary to explicitly say things more expert folks might take for granted and to put those things into an easily-grasped framework. The presentation describes genetic genealogy as a process, with several steps to it. The first step is choosing which type of test or tests (Y-STR, mtDNA, etc.) will meet your genealogical needs. The very next step is the choice of a test provider. ("Provider" means who you order from -- FTDNA, Ancestry DNA, 23andMe, SMGF, etc.) Once you've chosen a provider, you'll likely have to live with the choice a while. There are many providers to choose from; lab accuracy is pretty much a "wash" and price shouldn't be the main concern. Almost all providers restrict access to their results databases; in general, paid customers get better access than the public. IMHO, genealogical DNA test providers' major differences are in three areas: 1. Size of the databases (Bigger is better.) 2. "After-market" service -- what's available to you after the provider has your money and has reported the results. Some providers have more service, some less. (These costs are built into your test price.) 3. Projects -- joining a suitable project has many benefits. The Y-STR section talks about test results being mostly meaningless in isolation; they take on meaning only in comparison with others'. The purpose of a Y-STR test is to find a match or matches, in order to communicate and share information -- hopefully leading to identification of the common male ancestor. Some providers make that easier, some don't. So, the advice to the beginner is "Look before you leap" and consider the impact provider choice may have on realization of your desired outcome. However, there are alternatives if your provider doesn't facilitate match-finding. There are a few free public (or semi-public) online databases that accept results from multiple providers and allow searches. Two are www.ysearch.org and www.ybase.org. You establish an account, agree to the terms, manually enter your results (converting them to a common reporting protocol) & then search for matches. These may not be as satisfactory as some provider-hosted services, but they give you an "out". Or, check on www.worldfamilies.net & see if they have a Walsh (or other surname) project. Then check with the project to see if your Sorenson results can be included. -ralpht_/) PS to Billie -- HTML analogy: If you put many 3MB images on your web page, the slow loading is a consequence of the image choices. _ _... ..._ _ T B V T _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ K A 5 (H?) L S U ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-PROJECTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Diana's response to Billie was thorough & accurate and gave good suggestions to a person tested by a provider that doesn't provide as much support as others. I'd like to give a little different context though. To me, Billie's complaint arises from not having had the information needed to make an informed choice at the time. (It's not that SMGF is bad; it's that the choice isn't meeting Billie's needs.) Hopefully, we can steer other beginners in a direction that helps them achieve what they want. I was recently asked by my local genealogy & history society to give a presentation on "DNA genealogy", forcing me to look at it from the absolute beginner's perspective. It's necessary to explicitly say things more expert folks might take for granted and to put those things into an easily-grasped framework. The presentation describes genetic genealogy as a process, with several steps to it. The first step is choosing which type of test or tests (Y-STR, mtDNA, etc.) will meet your genealogical needs. The very next step is the choice of a test provider. ("Provider" means who you order from -- FTDNA, Ancestry DNA, 23andMe, SMGF, etc.) Once you've chosen a provider, you'll likely have to live with the choice a while. There are many providers to choose from; lab accuracy is pretty much a "wash" and price shouldn't be the main concern. Almost all providers restrict access to their results databases; in general, paid customers get better access than the public. IMHO, genealogical DNA test providers' major differences are in three areas: 1. Size of the databases (Bigger is better.) 2. "After-market" service -- what's available to you after the provider has your money and has reported the results. Some providers have more service, some less. (These costs are built into your test price.) 3. Projects -- joining a suitable project has many benefits. The Y-STR section talks about test results being mostly meaningless in isolation; they take on meaning only in comparison with others'. The purpose of a Y-STR test is to find a match or matches, in order to communicate and share information -- hopefully leading to identification of the common male ancestor. Some providers make that easier, some don't. So, the advice to the beginner is "Look before you leap" and consider the impact provider choice may have on realization of your desired outcome. However, there are alternatives if your provider doesn't facilitate match-finding. There are a few free public (or semi-public) online databases that accept results from multiple providers and allow searches. Two are www.ysearch.org and www.ybase.org. You establish an account, agree to the terms, manually enter your results (converting them to a common reporting protocol) & then search for matches. These may not be as satisfactory as some provider-hosted services, but they give you an "out". Or, check on www.worldfamilies.net & see if they have a Walsh (or other surname) project. Then check with the project to see if your Sorenson results can be included. -ralpht_/) PS to Billie -- HTML analogy: If you put many 3MB images on your web page, the slow loading is a consequence of the image choices. _ _... ..._ _ T B V T _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ K A 5 (H?) L S U

Or, is the topic now "from the inside looking out"? Diana raised good points when she wrote, in part "If a project web page has not been updated since last March, the question is: Has it not been updated because there are no new members or results (i.e., nothing to add)? Or has the project admin really been remiss in updating the site? ... "With the financial collapse of 2008, I had a *profound* drop in the number of new members, in all six of my projects, and I'm still not getting new members in anything like the number I was getting before September '08. Is it possible there's nothing to update?" For project websites at FTDNA, the site consists of several pages. Some of those pages (project goals, etc.) needn't be changed frequently. But, perhaps, we're talking about the "Y-results" page; that should be updated either (1) when there are results to add or (2) groups to revise. Most won't revise the page daily; they'll let a few changes accumulate. Our project, too, has seen a falling-off of new members, especially since July. We've been stuck at the same number of total members for months. I do think it's an economy thing. Perhaps, the "Holiday Sale" prices will help; hope so. In the meantime, some upgrades & matches are coming through & we'll have to update our Y-results soon. -ralpht_/)

I started this list for three main reasons, all of which were spelled out as my intentions, at the time: One was to give people a venue for asking questions and carrying on discussions free from the fear of being insulted or attacked by list bullies, as was then common on GENEALOGY-DNA list, the atmosphere of which was more like an unregulated newsgroup than a RootsWeb mailing list. To give you an idea how bad it must have been, within the first 24 hours of opening Y-DNA-PROJECTS, I had 70 subscribers move here from GENEALOGY-DNA. So I hope y'all see, now, if you didn't before, why I'm ruthless when it comes to suppressing these behaviors here. The second reason is that GENEALOGY-DNA is dominated by people doing paleoanthropology via SNP testing, most of whom are not running Y-DNA surname projects. You had to do a lot of Del key clicking to find a message that had anything to do with Y-DNA surname projects -- hence, it's the main topic, here. Lastly, I have real concerns about how some projects are being run: concern for the admin, who many be floundering; concern for the members, who may be frustrated and discouraged; and concern for the future of DNA testing if it doesn't appear effective, either to those who've done it or those considering it. I had hoped Y-DNA-PROJECTS could serve as a mechanism for helping to improve the situation, as project admins get their questions asked and hear the concerns and share the experience of others. We can't know what efforts FTDNA takes to improve the management of projects, but it does appear they give admins a lot of slack. I think the pressure to change has to come from the project members -- and other admins. I would hope some of them would come here, for help, but of course, that presumes they know or care that their project is foundering. If they don't, I think it's up to the members to make the admin aware of their dissatisfaction. Is there anything anyone else thinks might be done to help floundering or moribund projects? Diana Y-DNA-PROJECTS Listadmin > -----Original Message----- > From: y-dna-projects-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-projects- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Wilcox Lisa > Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 2:02 PM > To: y-dna-projects@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] The poorly-run project > > Linda, I can sooo appreciate your frustration. I hope Marleen is able to help out! > > What does one do in the case of a poorly-managed project? > > In one of my own lineages the results were getting posted and sorted in a timely way (by > worldfamilies.net staff) but the admin of record was doing nothing to recruit, > communicate, interpret, or connect with pedigrees. I told my lineage cousins that it > didn't matter, that we could supply those things for ourselves, but of course that leaves > other lineages hung out to dry. > > At the Houston conference I introduced myself to Terry Barton, thanking him for the > work worldfamilies does in managing the orphans --and I ended up with the project > anyway. I will at least bring time and energy to a project, if not vast quantities of > expertise. > > I don't know, and should perhaps ask Terry, under what circumstances rudderless > projects are transferred to his care. > > What else can be done? > > > Lisa > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-PROJECTS- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > and the body of the message

On Dec 5, 2010, at 5:37 PM, Raymond wrote: > I decided to try one more time to reply to a project join request...this > time when I received the error message I noticed that it was flagging my > comment within the email concerning my <email address>....apparently the > system will not allow the use of the angle bracket...I changed my > written reply to my "...send to my (email address)"....the system > accepted it and the reply was sent... > > Raymond Raymond, I ran into this 'same' problem when using 23andMe's 'internal' email system. I kept writing a potential match and asking her to write me back at my regular email and enclosed my correct email address in < >. It took quite a bit of back and forth to discover that 23andMe's 'internal' email system just removed the angle brackets AND my email address. Perhaps this is what has been going wrong for those people not receiving a response through the FTDNA 'internal' email system. I can tell you that the woman I was corresponding with at 23andMe was thinking I was a little looney for a while until we figured out what was happening. She finally said, "I don't know why you keep asking me to write you when there is NEVER an email address shown!" Carol Vass Kent, WA

On Dec 5, 2010, at 5:37 PM, Diana Gale Matthiesen wrote: > I started this list for three main reasons... Big thank you, Diana!! > Is there anything anyone else thinks might be done to help floundering or moribund projects? I did begin emailing my own interpretations to the relevant project members, with CCs to Terry and the nominal admin. Not a great approach if you don't want to take on that particular task. ;-) Lisa

> -----Original Message----- > From: y-dna-projects-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-projects- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Linda > Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 11:47 AM > To: y-dna-projects@rootsweb.com > Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] The view from the outside looking in > <snip> < I don't know what happens to lists with no admin At least some (all?) orphaned projects get moved to World Families Network. Diana

Our Smelser / Smeltzer (and other variations) surname project has been at FTDNA since March 2006.   We are a small project of about 40 participants.    I have also managed the Lyddon / Lydon project which has only had 4 or 5 participants during that same time frame.    I use FTDNA exclusively at the moment for listing our results.  I've considered WorldFamilies but have not yet taken the time to set up our own web site outside FTDNA tools .   I have however reserved domain names to be used in the event we one day choose to do so.    I've NEVER had an issue with FTDNA that wasn't resolved in a timely fashion to my satisfaction (or answered politely to show the error of my thinking).    I have also participated in the SMGF project AND have uploaded my personal data to GeneTree.    I've been pleased with their "free" model but I go into it knowing the limitations of Sorenson reporting, the expectation of additional costs to GeneTree if I choose those services , and combine those expectations with an ever increasing understanding of how their project operates.   I've "learned" how to find information by studying how the various systems operate.   Much of that learning has come from watching and occassionally participating in conversations about the topic (and others of course) on forums like this one and by simply exploring the databases themselves .   I'm also pleased that FTDNA does maintain y-search.   Projects like SMGF and y-search have helped us on a couple of issues BUT the FTDNA project combined with our focus on targeted contacts with family lines whose origins we can't figure out via paper trail has resulted in huge gains in the understanding of our family history.   We have solved age old genealogy questions ...... many of which were here-to-fore unknown previously ..... even as q uestions .... and have generated many more questions yet to be answered!    We all know that a ssumptions have a nasty way of getting in the way of fact.   And then the assumptions become truths to too many.   Our projects have not been immune to that process by any stretch of the imagination.    Therefore, g enetic genealogy is a great tool for all of us ... of that I have no doubt.  Well done it allows us to positively replace assumptions with much improved  information generally rising to the level of fact .   I'm very pleased with the way that FTDNA has provided tools and substantial leadership in this endeavor.   However,  I do like to see the competition from other sources as well.   Besides, the cross checking of data never hurts and often  helps to keep all competitors honest.

Billie The Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation have now set up a partnership with GeneTree so that SMGF testees can get more out of their results. If you've tested with SMGF you have to pay a small fee to "unlock" your results so that they can be converted to a usable format and added to the GeneTree database: http://www.genetree.com GeneTree continue to sell test kits, though they only have a very restricted range of basic tests and, like Ancestry, no SNP testing is done so haplogroups can only be predicted. Once you've converted your results to GeneTree you can then upload your Y-DNA results to Y-search and other public databases such as Y-base and Ancestry. Your mtDNA results can be uploaded to Mitosearch. It is always worth contacting the relevant project manager at FTDNA too as they should still be able to compare your results with their existing project members and tell you if you have a match. I keep results from other companies on my own spreadsheet. Debbie Kennett

Linda All projects are run by volunteers regardless of which testing company is used and there will inevitably be times when e-mails go unanswered or when results aren't updated. Sometimes too admins become unwell, and in a few cases admins have passed away so it takes time to sort out a replacement. I would suggest that anyone thinking of ordering a DNA test through a project should contact the project administrator first for advice before taking a test. DO you have one particular project in mind? Can you perhaps share the name of the project? Debbie Kennett

Linda, I can sooo appreciate your frustration. I hope Marleen is able to help out! What does one do in the case of a poorly-managed project? In one of my own lineages the results were getting posted and sorted in a timely way (by worldfamilies.net staff) but the admin of record was doing nothing to recruit, communicate, interpret, or connect with pedigrees. I told my lineage cousins that it didn't matter, that we could supply those things for ourselves, but of course that leaves other lineages hung out to dry. At the Houston conference I introduced myself to Terry Barton, thanking him for the work worldfamilies does in managing the orphans --and I ended up with the project anyway. I will at least bring time and energy to a project, if not vast quantities of expertise. I don't know, and should perhaps ask Terry, under what circumstances rudderless projects are transferred to his care. What else can be done? Lisa

There are a number, a lot for the small size of our group, of new results that have not been moved from unassigned into the desired location. Since the new design has been published I have emailed FTDNA about the results still being in the same old place: UNASSIGNED. The response back from FTDNA was that the Admin is responsible. About two emails a month or so to the admin and/or second in command yield zero results. There used to at least be a response with nothing happening. Now there is no response period. This is on the McKee Group and when I last tried the MacKey Group it was the same on that one. I haven't returned to the MacKey in a month or so and it may now be updated. I don't encourage anyone to join the McKee Group any more was my earlier meaning and perhaps I failed to clarify that. I do not want to feel any more responsible than I already do for encouraging McKee men to test and then nothing happens when they do. I cannot help them, I don't know much more than they do, heck, I am having trouble trying to figure how to download the markers to excel never mind figuring out how to understand the results for certain. I have hesitated to complain because, as in many cases, bad help may be better than no help at all. All these admins have a life, I surely understand that. You all are wonderful to be willing to run these lists you take care of and I hope your people properly appreciate how lucky they are to have you. I don't know what happens to lists with no admin and I sure am not qualified, capable nor interested in running a list. The squeaking wheel does not always get greased. I do this thing we do for pleasure and relaxing. Some people do well in command, not me, I have a United States Army (Retired) Master Sergeant E-8 at home giving all the commands I can handle. Calling these computer related people for help-worse than having a tooth drilled-it's bad enough to have to send all these emails-like getting HP to figure out why my email will not print and I have to transfer it to Office and create a file to print an email (this following a Windows Update) or why McAfee wants to charge me twice at much as a they do a new customer for the second year , or why Microsoft keeps sending me emails saying my Office is about expire.......any of them all, this is not my idea of keeping my blood pressure in check. It becomes more like my old job in an office dealing with the public all day. No thanks! This end is supposed to be the fun part.

Linda, I am a McKee descendant. Write to me privately at msvnhrn@jps.net, I will answer your questions. Marleen Van Horne Admin Seven Projects

Angle brackets <> are used to set off HTML tags. There are many contexts where using them will cause trouble. You found a workable solution. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: y-dna-projects-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-projects- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Raymond > Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 9:02 AM > To: y-dna-projects@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] FTDNA sending threatening emails > > I decided to try one more time to reply to a project join request...this time when I > received the error message I noticed that it was flagging my comment within the email > concerning my <email address>....apparently the system will not allow the use of the > angle bracket...I changed my written reply to my "...send to my (email address)"....the > system accepted it and the reply was sent... > > Raymond >

I agree that giving up is not the answer. I'm dealing with a project, right now, that goes months on end without updating results and, if the number of blank Earliest Ancestors is any indication, makes little or no effort to see these fields filled in or much of anything else. I complained, persistently, to the admin and to FTDNA, and the project took on a co-admin. The project page was updated when the new co-admin came on board, but then not again for three months! They have a serious relationship problem in that two people claiming the same ancestor are in different haplogroups, though matching others, so if it's an NPE it's way back. I and other members have been pressing the admin to get lineages from these individuals, so we can check their paper genealogy and see which line has the bad connection. The admin has been stalling for *over a year* on this. I think she doesn't know what to do and won't admit it. In the meantime, this is a major progenitor for the surname who is appearing in two different, clearly unrelated groups. There is an inherent problem for any business or institution that depends on volunteers. If you're too hard on them, they will walk, so I completely understand FTDNA's reticence to discipline project admins. There's no easy solution here. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: y-dna-projects-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-projects- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Randall > Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 5:14 AM > To: y-dna-projects@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] The view from the outside looking in > > Did you try calling FTDNA? Perhaps you have bad email addresses for them. > Whenever I have called them with a problem they are very helpful. Just giving up is not > very effective. I don't think very many of us have had your experience. >

On 12/4/2010 5:03 PM, Diana Gale Matthiesen wrote: >> Since the GAP 2 change I have been unable to even send a reply to a join > request entered >> > in the FTDNA systems...I have reported this numerous times but get the same > reply that >> > IT has fixed the problem...now I received this email the other day...notice > the line >> > "Barring the cleaning out..."... >> > I decided to try one more time to reply to a project join request...this time when I received the error message I noticed that it was flagging my comment within the email concerning my <email address>....apparently the system will not allow the use of the angle bracket...I changed my written reply to my "...send to my (email address)"....the system accepted it and the reply was sent... Raymond