Yes, I have done the same; that is, allowed someone into my project, just to get the price discount, because their "biological" surname is unknown. There is also an "Adoptees" group at FTDNA set up for this purpose: https://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.aspx?code=T42871&special=true FTDNA says (somewhere on their web site) the number of customers tested who get an "unexpected" result is about 2-5%. It's been running *at least* that much in my projects. Just as we warn novices not to do their genealogy if they can't deal with discovering something they'd rather not have know, the caveat is in spades for being DNA tested. It's one reason I suggest people not mention being tested, even to family members, until after they've seen the results. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] On Behalf Of fmoakes > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 2:16 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] out of wedlock births, adoptions, etc. > > > From: [email protected] On Behalf Of David Weston > > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:09 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] out of wedlock births, adoptions, etc. > >  > > Bryan Sykes mentions, in one of his books, that in his > research he has found that he is Y-DNA linked to about 1/2 of > the Sykes tested. He further states that the Sykes surname > could have had a single founder because in the number of > generations the surname Sykes has been in use, 50% is about > what would be expected with a 2-2.5% NPE rate. > So if your surname project is open to all users of that > surname, it should be expected that there will be multiple > lineages. It would appear that identification of NPE's would > be an objective of a project, unless membership was > restricted to documented descendants of a single or select > group of progenitors. > I have invited two personal friends of different surnames, > who do not know there genetic surname due to NPEs, to join > our project while waiting for  a DNA match that would > identify the true surname.  > We have one member who discovered his Y-DNA did not match a > known paternal line cousin. It was then revealed that the > other side of the family knew that his grandfather had been > born to an Oakes, out of wedlock, with an unknown father, and > given her surname He was very fortunate to find an exact > match to a family that lived near his great grandmother and > has been accepted as a member of that surname project. > Floyd Oakes > Co-Administrator > Oak Family DNA Project > The topic of this list is Y-DNA *surname* projects. > Discussion of geographic, haplogroup, or mtDNA projects is > off topic for this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message > >

Forgive me, but I don't understand. How is it that the people being tested aren't aware of the NPE? Don't they see that their own results don't match other lines in the family? Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Raymond Wing > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:31 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] out of wedlock births, adoptions, etc. > > I am the administrator for the Wing Y-DNA Project. Thus far, > virtually all of the Wings tested had a paper-trail line > going back to one of the three sons of Rev. John Wing > (1584-1630 died shortly before the family emigrated to Lynn, Mass.) > > One interesting result with the DNA testing is the discovery > of an early NPE in the line. We were able to identify the > genetic family line (as it was a perfect 37/37 marker match > to the modal value of the other family) and with this > connection, have been able to likely identify when this NPE > event occurred. > > However, the Wing Family of America, Inc. (a family > association of the descendants of Rev. John Wing) has voted > NOT to publish this result. I don't personally agree with > this decision (as I believe people have the right to know, > especially those who descend from this line) > <snip> > > Raymond T. Wing > > Genealogist, Wing Family of America, Inc. [WFA] > > www.wingfamily.org >

Members will not correct other members for being off topic. That is my prerogative as list admin. If you have a complaint, about anything, message me offlist. You can reach the admin of any RootsWeb mailing list using an address of this form: [email protected] So the listadmin address for this list is [email protected] Sorry you had to be the first one to bump into this, and I see by the smiley that you must have meant it as a joke. But there are not going to be any arguments started on the list because one member declares another off topic. I am seldom away from my computer for more than eight hours (if I should be so lucky as to get that much sleep), so even an off topic thread will not go on for long. Please leave it to me to declare a message or thread off topic, and please just hit your Del key until I do. Thank you, Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] On Behalf Of RT > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:53 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] out of wedlock births, adoptions, etc. > > Hey now, watch it! Diana says very plainly, "The topic of > this list is Y-DNA *surname* projects. Discussion of > haplogroup projects is off topic for this list." > > ;-) > > Richard >

I agree. The first person to start using a surname becomes a new founder for that name. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Marleen Van Horne > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:51 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] out of wedlock births, adoptions, etc. > > David, > > From my perspective, it is not who you descend from, but what your > present day surname is. Surnames were arbitrarily chosen or > adopted at > some time in the past, and it still happens today. Whoever > was / is the > first person of a line, to use the name, is the founder of that line, > with that surname. Five hundred years from now, who cares, > it is just > important to document the name shift, if the original surname > is known, > or eventually found. > > Marleen Van Horne > >

Yes, I do allow people who uncover an NPE to stay in my project. You can't assume the NPE is "close in." It may be very far back, so there may be a great many people with that surname who would be a match for this person. The first person in the patrilineal line to bear the NPE has, in effect, founded a new dynasty for the surname. I suggest they also join the surname project of their "biological" surname. There is good reason to be tested, even if you know there's an adoption or illicit paternity in your patrilineal line. You may not be able to individually identify the unknown male, but you certainly can determine his surname and family. I have a page where I discuss the NPEs in my projects and the degree to which they have been resolved: http://dgmweb.net/genealogy/DNA/NPE_Resolutions.shtml Uncovering an NPE is invariable a major shock to a member, but they should be encouraged that connecting to their "real" patrilineal ancestor is not entirely hopeless. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] On Behalf Of David Weston > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:09 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] out of wedlock births, adoptions, etc. > > Hello, > > I am very interested to hear how various surname project > admins handle known non-paternal events > (NPE) (or what ever your prefer to call them) in their > projects, i.e. out of wedlock births, > adoptions, etc.. > > Do you include people in your projects who descended from a > known NPE? For example, my wife's > paternal line (THURLOW) descends from a well documented > out-of-wedlock birth in 1825. Would you > have some one like this in your project? It helps in this > case that I run the THURLOW DNA Project > so I had no choice really but to include my wife's line :-) > I did have another THURLOW in the same > situation decide against testing because of the NPE. He > figure there was no point since finding the > documentation to establish any paternal bloodline connection > was unlikely even with a YDNA match. > > With my WESTON project I have previously been approached by > an adoptee whose birth father was a > WESTON. The fellow had taken a YDNA test in hopes of > tracking him. I had actually had a found a > likely related match for him through SMGF. The match > happened to by with a long-time correspondent > of mine. Unfortunately, the MRCA was likely back in the > 1700s so no use to this fellows search for > his father. I didn't violate any ones privacy and didn't > pass on any info that wasn't already > public or that I didn't have permission to relay. Still it > felt a little awkward. > > Thank you in advance for sharing your experience in this regard. > > Cheers, David. > > >

From: [email protected] On Behalf Of David Weston > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:09 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] out of wedlock births, adoptions, etc. >  Bryan Sykes mentions, in one of his books, that in his research he has found that he is Y-DNA linked to about 1/2 of the Sykes tested. He further states that the Sykes surname could have had a single founder because in the number of generations the surname Sykes has been in use, 50% is about what would be expected with a 2-2.5% NPE rate. So if your surname project is open to all users of that surname, it should be expected that there will be multiple lineages. It would appear that identification of NPE's would be an objective of a project, unless membership was restricted to documented descendants of a single or select group of progenitors. I have invited two personal friends of different surnames, who do not know there genetic surname due to NPEs, to join our project while waiting for  a DNA match that would identify the true surname.  We have one member who discovered his Y-DNA did not match a known paternal line cousin. It was then revealed that the other side of the family knew that his grandfather had been born to an Oakes, out of wedlock, with an unknown father, and given her surname He was very fortunate to find an exact match to a family that lived near his great grandmother and has been accepted as a member of that surname project. Floyd Oakes Co-Administrator Oak Family DNA Project

Hello, I am very interested to hear how various surname project admins handle known non-paternal events (NPE) (or what ever your prefer to call them) in their projects, i.e. out of wedlock births, adoptions, etc.. Do you include people in your projects who descended from a known NPE? For example, my wife's paternal line (THURLOW) descends from a well documented out-of-wedlock birth in 1825. Would you have some one like this in your project? It helps in this case that I run the THURLOW DNA Project so I had no choice really but to include my wife's line :-) I did have another THURLOW in the same situation decide against testing because of the NPE. He figure there was no point since finding the documentation to establish any paternal bloodline connection was unlikely even with a YDNA match. With my WESTON project I have previously been approached by an adoptee whose birth father was a WESTON. The fellow had taken a YDNA test in hopes of tracking him. I had actually had a found a likely related match for him through SMGF. The match happened to by with a long-time correspondent of mine. Unfortunately, the MRCA was likely back in the 1700s so no use to this fellows search for his father. I didn't violate any ones privacy and didn't pass on any info that wasn't already public or that I didn't have permission to relay. Still it felt a little awkward. Thank you in advance for sharing your experience in this regard. Cheers, David.

David, I have many different lines of MacLarens, Lawsons, Pat(t)ersons, Low(e), :Laws, Lowerys, Lawrences, MacRauris, and other surnames of Clan MacLaren (and of many variant spellings). A few have DNA results not matching their paper genealogy (a NPE). In a few cases, we know where the NPE occured, in others we do not. However, being from a different line, whether due to a NPE or having apopted the surname at an earlier time (including changing the surname when one joined the Clan), does not mean you are rejected from the project. We welcome all the surnames of the Clan and will help all with their genealogy. Our Chief states that one is a member of Clan MacLaren by birth, marriage, or adoption. I often have people ask me if they have the "MacLaren gene" or if their DNA results show them to be in Clan MacLaren. I do point out that there is no such thing as a MacLaren gene (explaining what is being tested). As for whether their DNA results show them to be in the Clan, I tell them I cannot determine that. I can determine who they are related to, and that is all. Yours aye, Bob McLaren Chairman, Genealogy Committee, Clan MacLaren Society of North America Genealogist, Clan MacLaren Society (based in Scotland) Administrator, Clan MacLaren Surname DNA Project Member, Association of Professional Genealogists > [Original Message] > From: David Weston <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Date: 7/23/2008 9:08:53 PM > Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] out of wedlock births, adoptions, etc. > > Hello, > > I am very interested to hear how various surname project admins handle known non-paternal events > (NPE) (or what ever your prefer to call them) in their projects, i.e. out of wedlock births, > adoptions, etc.. > > Do you include people in your projects who descended from a known NPE? For example, my wife's > paternal line (THURLOW) descends from a well documented out-of-wedlock birth in 1825. Would you > have some one like this in your project? It helps in this case that I run the THURLOW DNA Project > so I had no choice really but to include my wife's line :-) I did have another THURLOW in the same > situation decide against testing because of the NPE. He figure there was no point since finding the > documentation to establish any paternal bloodline connection was unlikely even with a YDNA match. > > With my WESTON project I have previously been approached by an adoptee whose birth father was a > WESTON. The fellow had taken a YDNA test in hopes of tracking him. I had actually had a found a > likely related match for him through SMGF. The match happened to by with a long-time correspondent > of mine. Unfortunately, the MRCA was likely back in the 1700s so no use to this fellows search for > his father. I didn't violate any ones privacy and didn't pass on any info that wasn't already > public or that I didn't have permission to relay. Still it felt a little awkward. > > Thank you in advance for sharing your experience in this regard. > > Cheers, Davi

Hello Diana, I new going in with my WESTONs that our origins were likely spread across England. The word "WESTON" is Old English and refers to the west end or side of a farm or hamlet. There are over 100 place names in Great Britain with the 'Weston' in the name. In my traditional research, I also compiled a list of all the male WESTONs born before 1813 who were listed in the 1851 UK census (Ancestry.com index). I then tabulated and mapped the lot by birth place and county. The idea was to see in which parts of England we WESTONs were most common. The results are posted on the Background tab of the DNA project website. http://www.familytreedna.com/public/weston_worldwide/index.aspx I found 5 or 6 super clusters depending on you break them down. The bulk of the WESTONs are from the English Midlands (Staffordshire, Leicestershire) with other pockes in Wiltshire, Sussex, London (Middlesex) and Surrey. My lot are in the London/Surrey crowd. Quiet a large number of Americans can probably claim descendent from a WESTON family. One family was amongst the founders at Duxbury and Plymouth, Mass. and married into several of the Mayflower lines (SOULE, STANDISH). It was a Thomas WESTON that supposedly sold the 'Mayflower' to the Pilgrims. I have seen that substantiated though. A John WESTON/WESSON was amongst the founders at Salem and Reading, Mass. and claims a very large number of descendents in the USA today. As for the THURLOWs, them I had researched for years as a One-Name Study before started the DNA project. I thought I had the lot figured out. On paper there are two unrelated families, one from East Anglia (Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire) and the other from the Hull area of East Yorkshire, whose surname had changed from THORLEY. The East Yorkshire THURLOW/THORLEY's are the only ones I have had luck piecing together with YDNA. It helps one of them, a Richard THORLEY/THURLOW, was one of the founders at Rowley, Mass. and as large American tree beneath him. The East Anglian THURLOWs on the other hand I am 5/6 in unrelated branches. My best guess is that the surname passed down in East Anglia through various maternal connections. My own THURLOW line traces to an out of wedlock birth in 1825. Cheers, David. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Diana Gale Matthiesen Sent: July 23, 2008 3:41 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] WESTON & THURLOW DNA Projects - multipleorigins Are you getting multiple origins for each surname? I think the thing that suprised me the most in my projects is how many different origins there are for these surnames. I guess I expected each of them to be more "monolithitc." In fact, [checking...] the tally for my five surname projects now stands at: BIDDLE: 7 members / 5 origins CARRICO: 9 members / 3 origins CORBIN: 19 members / 9 origins RASEY: 3 members / 2 origins STRAUB: 44 members / 22 origins! I would expect to have multiple origins for occupational names (e.g., BAKER, CARPENTER, MILLER, SMITH, etc.) or for patronymics (e.g., JOHNSON, WILLIAMSON, etc.), but I didn't expect so many origins for these names. Diana

Hey now, watch it! Diana says very plainly, "The topic of this list is Y-DNA *surname* projects. Discussion of haplogroup projects is off topic for this list." ;-) Richard ---- Raymond Wing <[email protected]> wrote: I am the administrator for the Wing Y-DNA Project. Thus far, virtually all of the Wings tested had a paper-trail line going back to one of the three sons of Rev. John Wing (1584-1630 died shortly before the family emigrated to Lynn, Mass.) One interesting result with the DNA testing is the discovery of an early NPE in the line. We were able to identify the genetic family line (as it was a perfect 37/37 marker match to the modal value of the other family) and with this connection, have been able to likely identify when this NPE event occurred. However, the Wing Family of America, Inc. (a family association of the descendants of Rev. John Wing) has voted NOT to publish this result. I don't personally agree with this decision (as I believe people have the right to know, especially those who descend from this line) It is also interesting that the surname of Wing seemingly has the etymology from the Vikings. The two Manors of Wing in England are both in that portion of England which fell under the Danelaw. In addition, the word Wing is of Viking origin. The Anglo-Saxon terminology was (modern day) feather. I raise this issue because the Wing family Haplogroup is R1b... (not a strong Viking Haplogroup) We had a gentleman in England whose surname is Wing tested and his Haplogroup was I (which is a stronger indicator of Viking background than R1b) Recently a record was found where a parish priest was punished for having an affair with the wife of a John Wing in England. It makes me wonder if Rev. John Wing was a descendant of this affair? Raymond T. Wing Genealogist, Wing Family of America, Inc. [WFA] www.wingfamily.org The topic of this list is Y-DNA *surname* projects. Discussion of geographic, haplogroup, or mtDNA projects is off topic for this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message The topic of this list is Y-DNA *surname* projects. Discussion of geographic, haplogroup, or mtDNA projects is off topic for this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I don't understand why this is even considered an issue. After all, it IS his surname and that of his descendants; to throw them all out because you prefer a different group of ancestors is not very nice. That's shooting yourself in the foot, especially since it's already well-documented. That's what matters, the documented genealogy is the whole point. You just have to deal with another known line in your haplotypes. This can be handled. A vocal group in the Thrift project WANT very much to believe that they derive from an undocumented NPE ~1770, 700 miles away from their locale (supposedly a male from one particular Thrift family & some female other than his wife), despite the DNA evidence against it, and despite a general lack of other supporting evidence. It's funny, lots of folks enjoy being considered an outlaw, even if they aren't one. But, NPE or not, they are definitely a (by now, 200+ years later, very large!) family with this surname, and definitely have a place in the project. Richard ---- David Weston <[email protected]> wrote: Hello, I am very interested to hear how various surname project admins handle known non-paternal events (NPE) (or what ever your prefer to call them) in their projects, i.e. out of wedlock births, adoptions, etc.. Do you include people in your projects who descended from a known NPE? For example, my wife's paternal line (THURLOW) descends from a well documented out-of-wedlock birth in 1825. Would you have some one like this in your project? It helps in this case that I run the THURLOW DNA Project so I had no choice really but to include my wife's line :-) I did have another THURLOW in the same situation decide against testing because of the NPE. He figure there was no point since finding the documentation to establish any paternal bloodline connection was unlikely even with a YDNA match. With my WESTON project I have previously been approached by an adoptee whose birth father was a WESTON. The fellow had taken a YDNA test in hopes of tracking him. I had actually had a found a likely related match for him through SMGF. The match happened to by with a long-time correspondent of mine. Unfortunately, the MRCA was likely back in the 1700s so no use to this fellows search for his father. I didn't violate any ones privacy and didn't pass on any info that wasn't already public or that I didn't have permission to relay. Still it felt a little awkward. Thank you in advance for sharing your experience in this regard. Cheers, David. The topic of this list is Y-DNA *surname* projects. Discussion of geographic, haplogroup, or mtDNA projects is off topic for this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I've just joined this list. I'm Project Administrator for the following: Clan MacLaren Surname DNA Project (Worldwide) (329 members) Lindo Surname DNA Project (Worldwide) (1 member) da Silva Surname DNA Project (Worldwide) (1 member) As I used to tell my kids when they bought a report card home and it wasn't all A's "Let's see if we can raise those last two a bit!!" Yours aye, Bob McLaren Chairman, Genealogy Committee, Clan MacLaren Society of North America Genealogist, Clan MacLaren Society (based in Scotland) Robert McLaren [email protected] Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

David, From my perspective, it is not who you descend from, but what your present day surname is. Surnames were arbitrarily chosen or adopted at some time in the past, and it still happens today. Whoever was / is the first person of a line, to use the name, is the founder of that line, with that surname. Five hundred years from now, who cares, it is just important to document the name shift, if the original surname is known, or eventually found. Marleen Van Horne

I am the administrator for the Wing Y-DNA Project. Thus far, virtually all of the Wings tested had a paper-trail line going back to one of the three sons of Rev. John Wing (1584-1630 died shortly before the family emigrated to Lynn, Mass.) One interesting result with the DNA testing is the discovery of an early NPE in the line. We were able to identify the genetic family line (as it was a perfect 37/37 marker match to the modal value of the other family) and with this connection, have been able to likely identify when this NPE event occurred. However, the Wing Family of America, Inc. (a family association of the descendants of Rev. John Wing) has voted NOT to publish this result. I don't personally agree with this decision (as I believe people have the right to know, especially those who descend from this line) It is also interesting that the surname of Wing seemingly has the etymology from the Vikings. The two Manors of Wing in England are both in that portion of England which fell under the Danelaw. In addition, the word Wing is of Viking origin. The Anglo-Saxon terminology was (modern day) feather. I raise this issue because the Wing family Haplogroup is R1b... (not a strong Viking Haplogroup) We had a gentleman in England whose surname is Wing tested and his Haplogroup was I (which is a stronger indicator of Viking background than R1b) Recently a record was found where a parish priest was punished for having an affair with the wife of a John Wing in England.  It makes me wonder if Rev. John Wing was a descendant of this affair? Raymond T. Wing Genealogist, Wing Family of America, Inc. [WFA] www.wingfamily.org --- On Wed, 7/23/08, David Weston <[email protected]> wrote: From: David Weston <[email protected]> Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] out of wedlock births, adoptions, etc. To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 9:08 PM Hello, I am very interested to hear how various surname project admins handle known non-paternal events (NPE) (or what ever your prefer to call them) in their projects, i.e. out of wedlock births, adoptions, etc.. Do you include people in your projects who descended from a known NPE? For example, my wife's paternal line (THURLOW) descends from a well documented out-of-wedlock birth in 1825. Would you have some one like this in your project? It helps in this case that I run the THURLOW DNA Project so I had no choice really but to include my wife's line :-) I did have another THURLOW in the same situation decide against testing because of the NPE. He figure there was no point since finding the documentation to establish any paternal bloodline connection was unlikely even with a YDNA match. With my WESTON project I have previously been approached by an adoptee whose birth father was a WESTON. The fellow had taken a YDNA test in hopes of tracking him. I had actually had a found a likely related match for him through SMGF. The match happened to by with a long-time correspondent of mine. Unfortunately, the MRCA was likely back in the 1700s so no use to this fellows search for his father. I didn't violate any ones privacy and didn't pass on any info that wasn't already public or that I didn't have permission to relay. Still it felt a little awkward. Thank you in advance for sharing your experience in this regard. Cheers, David. The topic of this list is Y-DNA *surname* projects. Discussion of geographic, haplogroup, or mtDNA projects is off topic for this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Wow! It's only been a little over five hours since I announced the list, and we have 36 members already. I will hold off about 24 hours before making a "roll call," but there are certainly enough of us here now that if you want to begin a thread, you won't be messaging to a vacuum. Diana

Hello, I have two surname projects WESTON Worldwide (13 participants) http://www.familytreedna.com/public/weston_worldwide/index.aspx & THURLOW (12 participants) http://www.familytreedna.com/public/thurlow/index.aspx My biggest lesson and surprize so far with my surname projects is that WESTONs and THURLOWs are more likely to be unrelated to each other than not. This was particularly surprizing for the THURLOWs, a very uncommon surname derived from an East Anglian (southeast England) parish name. David Weston Nova Scotia, Canada

Van Horne is an extremely rare surname, after three years, we have 15 participants whose surname actually is some version of Van Horne. The primary objective of the project is to identify the genetic pedigrees of the three immigrants to New Netherlands whose descendants adopted this surname. So far we have identified the genetic pedigree of Christian Barentsen and Matthys Cornelissen. There have been no descendants of Jan Cornelissen who have joined the project---this line may have daughtered out. We have conventional documentation identifying the place of origin for Christian Barentsen as probably Hoorn, Terschelling, Friesland. The probable place of origin for Matthys Cornelissen is Horne, Hjorring, Jutland, Denmark. There is also a Horne, in Ribe, Jutland, Denmark, so this place of origin requires some flexibility of throught. We have three other individuals with the Van Horne surname. Two do not descend from the above named individuals. The remaining individual has only tested 12 markers, which in my opinion is too few draw conclusions as to a common ancestor. Participants in this project have to receive permission to join. I have found that discussing with potential project members what they hope to achieve by joining, and how many markers they intend to test, before they actually sign up, gives actual project members a better idea of what to expect as far as their genealogy is concerned. I want to point out the test results for related individuals seems to come back in three groups, those with NO mutations, those with a FEW mutations and those with mutations like zits on a teenager. In the instance of NO and FEW mutation, you have almost no way of telling how the individuals are related, you just know the are. In the instances where related individuals have LOTS of mutations, you can actually draw conclusions on how they might be related. On this point, I draw your attention to the descendants of Matthys Cornelissen. All nine of these individuals have done 67 marker tests, eight of which are complete. For CDYa and 537, a fast and an slow marker, the first five men show 35 and 11 repeats respectively and the last three show 34 and 10 respectively. For 460 and GATA H4, both slow mutating markers, the first five show 11 and 10 respectively and the last three show 12 and 11 respectively. One individual in the first five has a back mutation on GATA H4 to 9 and one individual in the last three shows a possible back mutation on 460. The conventional paper trail on these eight individuals show that the first five descend from Abraham Van Horn, and the last three from Cornelius Van Horen, repectively the younger and older sons of Matthys Cornelissen. Combining the distribution of the mutations, with the conventional paper trail, it is actually possible to create a genetic pedigree showing how the individuals relate to one another. One note of caution, that is how things are today. It is entirely possible that with more test results, the branches on the genetic pedigree will change. To look at these test results, go to www.familytreedna.com/public/VanHorne and click on yresults. Marleen Van Horne

Are you getting multiple origins for each surname? I think the thing that suprised me the most in my projects is how many different origins there are for these surnames. I guess I expected each of them to be more "monolithitc." In fact, [checking...] the tally for my five surname projects now stands at: BIDDLE: 7 members / 5 origins CARRICO: 9 members / 3 origins CORBIN: 19 members / 9 origins RASEY: 3 members / 2 origins STRAUB: 44 members / 22 origins! I would expect to have multiple origins for occupational names (e.g., BAKER, CARPENTER, MILLER, SMITH, etc.) or for patronymics (e.g., JOHNSON, WILLIAMSON, etc.), but I didn't expect so many origins for these names. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] On Behalf Of David Weston > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 2:22 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] WESTON & THURLOW DNA Projects > > Hello, > > I have two surname projects > > WESTON Worldwide (13 participants) > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/weston_worldwide/index.aspx > > & > > THURLOW (12 participants) > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/thurlow/index.aspx > > My biggest lesson and surprize so far with my surname > projects is that WESTONs and THURLOWs are more > likely to be unrelated to each other than not. This was > particularly surprizing for the THURLOWs, a > very uncommon surname derived from an East Anglian (southeast > England) parish name. > > David Weston > Nova Scotia, Canada > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message > >

Hi all! My two main projects are the Godbey & Farmer DNA Projects. Dave

Hi folks, My project is ELDER surname at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Elder Many of our ELDER kits are posted on the Scotland DNA chart, by Katherine Hope Borges at http://www.ourfamilyorigins.com/scotland/dna.htm ELDER names are in both the R1b chart and "I" ISLES, now I1b (one ELDER now matches STEWART I1b - 66/67). Nancy Elder Petersen 7808 NE 51st St, Apt. 139, Vancouver, WA 98662 360-882-1039 Volunteer Host, ELDER DNA project http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Elder --- On Wed, 7/23/08, David Farmer <[email protected]> wrote: > From: David Farmer <[email protected]> > Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] Godbey & Farmer DNA Projects > To: [email protected] > Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 10:12 AM > Hi all! > > My two main projects are the Godbey & Farmer DNA > Projects. > > Dave > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message