My pleasure, Peter. And congratulations on the successes in your project. I think a lot of us were surprised at how many origins our surnames have. If you stop and think about it, though, part of what we are seeing has to be an accumulation of NPEs. Some of those matches in other surnames may not be coincidental, which is a good reason to test, minimally, 37 markers and, preferably, 67. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Peter Langley > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 3:20 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] Roll Call > > Hi, > I am Peter Langley, a retired farm manager living in Ireland > and have been doing genealogy for over 40 years now. > I am also co-administrator of the Langley project. > > In the days before DNA testing I had rather naively thought > that the majority of Langleys derived from the same source. > Now with almost 50 members in the group we have discovered > there are 14 unrelated families. > > I think we may have had some success > So far only myself and two distant cousins know for certain > where the Langley is in England that we originated from. > However, one prolific group in the States, who could not get > back to England, let alone work out how they are related have > managed, by examining the origins of those who closely match > them, to get an educated guess that it is Northumberland. > > Well done Diana for starting this list. > > Peter > >

I am Chris Meek, age 62 and retired. I have been involved with genealogy for over 35 years. I am the administrator of the Meek surname project and co-administrator of the U198 haplogroup project. Despite my involvement with the haplogroup project my interests are primarily with family research within genealogical time frames. In a message dated 7/24/2008 7:39:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: OK folks. Don't let me dominate the conversation here. The list now has over 50 subscribers, so I'm asking for our first roll call. Don't feel you have to join in, but you are certainly welcome to do so. A "roll call" consists of briefly introducing yourself, giving your main research interests or, in the case of this list, the projects you either administer or are a member of, and your most pressing question or most important goal. Whatever you think the list would like to know about you with regard to your participation in Y-DNA surname projects. I'll start with moi... I'm retired, and my hobby/passion/obsession is genealogy. I run six DNA projects: one regional project (Danish Demes) and five surname projects: BIDDLE, CARRICO, CORBIN, RASEY, and STRAUB, the oldest of which just turned four years old. My biggest personal success, so far, is "crossing the pond" with my STRAUB ancestry (my mother was a STRAUB). My biggest remaining goals are to "cross the pond" with my CARRICO, CORBIN, and RASEY lines, and to resolve the NPE in the BIDDLE project, which I'm actually working on for someone else. My biggest problem is lack of time. I've always needed a 30-hour day, but I never dreamt that when I retired, I'd still need one. My own DNA projects seem to be running smoothly, though new members never come in as quickly as you would want. If I won the lottery, I'd spend it on DNA testing! In addition to web pages for each of my projects, I have a large genealogy web site that is the other black hole for my time: http://dgmweb.net/genealogy/GenealogyHome.shtml Diana ------------------------------- The topic of this list is Y-DNA *surname* projects. Discussion of geographic, haplogroup, or mtDNA projects is off topic for this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

Yes, getting lineage information can be a big headache, though for me, more so in the early days than now. However, it's crucial to get the lineage or the test results aren't useful to the project. Initially, I was so hungry for members, I let people in, then worried later about getting their lineage from them. I no longer do that, and it's one reason I don't allow people to join without my consent. (If you're a project admin at FTDNA, this feature is controlled on the "Project Profile Page" of your GAP.) In my first response to their request to join, I ask them their lineage. I don't mean I ask for a set of family group sheets or a GEDCOM at this early stage. I just ask them for the name of their earliest known ancestor, plus the list of names connecting themselves to that ancestor. If they resist, I tell them sharing their lineage is a *requirement* for joining the project. Even if they never share more than the list of names, I can "do" their genealogy, myself, if I have to. As long as I can snag their line in the 1930 census, I have a pretty good chance of getting them back to a known progenitor, or at least as far as the 1850 census. (I don't know what I would do without the online census at Ancestry.com!) These are surnames I've been gathering data on for many years, so it's usually not like I'm starting at "ground zero" with a line. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] On Behalf Of > Vickie Carter Tallent > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 12:41 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] roll call > <snip> > > That said, our largest obstacle is receiving family information from > participants to share on the website. It is frustrating to > have a match with > someone who will not share their genealogy. I explain to them that it > doesn't need to be generated in a "program", just a simple > narrative will > do, but still don't always receive the information. > <snip> > > Vickie > > >

Sharon, When were your ancestors in Claiborne County? I assume the name is Bryant? What are some of your other Claiborne names. You can answer offlist, that's fine. Roberta Estes -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Sharon Bryant" <[email protected]> > I could dominate the conversation all by myself, Diana. However, I will be > nice. > > In a previous message I told you about the projects I administer so let me > tell you about the ones that members of my family are participants in. > > My maternal uncle, the only one left, did YDNA testing for me. I had mtDNA > testing done. Okay one side of the family done. > > My paternal grandmother was an Ikamire and her mother was a Mullinix (see > the pattern here? :>) ). > > My brother graciously said "well, what are brothers for?" and was tested for > our paternal Y line. I also have two sons by different husbands so have had > both of them tested. > > I'd like to talk about my brother's testing for a minute as it presents one > of the most frustrating results I've encountered. Our surname was Day and > for the longest time he had no matches at all. > > Then suddenly he had a 67/67 match! Whoopee! When I contacted the other > participant I found the following similarities. > > His ancestor was born in Virginia c 1775, probably Albemarle county. Mine > was born in Virginia c 1781, county unknown. > > His ancestor moved to Claiborne Co., TN. So did mine. > > Then both men moved to Putnam Co., IN where his ancestor died. Mine moved on > to Putnam Co., MO where he apparently died as he disappears after the 1860 > census. > > We have been able through tax records in Albemarle Co. to establish that his > ancestor's father's name was John. Couldn't have been something unusual like > Hezekiah! > > So here we are; the brick wall had a crack which has now sealed itself over > again. > > On one son's line I have a 67 marker test result, have done Deep SNP testing > including the U's and am waiting for 464X test results. He was adopted by > his stepfather and his birth father was adopted by his aunt and uncle. So I > have the paper trail and can prove his bloodline is of the Trail family but > can only get back as far as 1805, South Carolina. > > The other son is a Bryant and is a member of the O'Brien project. I play > with an even field so he has the same level of testing as his brother and my > brother. His earliest known ancestor is a Josiah Bryant. But wouldn't you > know there was more than one contemporary Josiahs. > > Sharon > > P.S. As if I didn't have enough "bricks" in my life, I'm having my kitchen > enlarged and I live in a brick house. :>) > > P.P.S. I'm also retired (professor of contract business management for DOD) > and am recovering from a stroke I had the first of June. Typing is > therapeutic! > > > > > > ------------------------------- > The topic of this list is Y-DNA *surname* projects. Discussion of geographic, > haplogroup, or mtDNA projects is off topic for this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My research interests span the full spectrum of the possible. Besides my WESTON and THURLOW surname projects, I also administer the R1b-U106/S21+ Research Group and East Anglia Geographic DNA Project. Being first generation English Canadian, all my traditional genealogy research interest start in England, where I have extensive research experience. This is a hobby for me (albeit fairly consuming). By profession, I am a serving member of the Canadian Air Force, currently working as a data analyst and project manager. I have spent a good part of my career "translating" technical jargon into laypersons terms and vice versa. I am happy to advise other DNA project administrators and their participants with analysis and/or interpretation of their results. Just ask. David Weston. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Diana Gale Matthiesen Sent: July 24, 2008 9:40 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] roll call OK folks. Don't let me dominate the conversation here. The list now has over 50 subscribers, so I'm asking for our first roll call. Don't feel you have to join in, but you are certainly welcome to do so. A "roll call" consists of briefly introducing yourself, giving your main research interests or, in the case of this list, the projects you either administer or are a member of, and your most pressing question or most important goal. Whatever you think the list would like to know about you with regard to your participation in Y-DNA surname projects. I'll start with moi... I'm retired, and my hobby/passion/obsession is genealogy. I run six DNA projects: one regional project (Danish Demes) and five surname projects: BIDDLE, CARRICO, CORBIN, RASEY, and STRAUB, the oldest of which just turned four years old. My biggest personal success, so far, is "crossing the pond" with my STRAUB ancestry (my mother was a STRAUB). My biggest remaining goals are to "cross the pond" with my CARRICO, CORBIN, and RASEY lines, and to resolve the NPE in the BIDDLE project, which I'm actually working on for someone else. My biggest problem is lack of time. I've always needed a 30-hour day, but I never dreamt that when I retired, I'd still need one. My own DNA projects seem to be running smoothly, though new members never come in as quickly as you would want. If I won the lottery, I'd spend it on DNA testing! In addition to web pages for each of my projects, I have a large genealogy web site that is the other black hole for my time: http://dgmweb.net/genealogy/GenealogyHome.shtml Diana ------------------------------- The topic of this list is Y-DNA *surname* projects. Discussion of geographic, haplogroup, or mtDNA projects is off topic for this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is a warning I make in big, bright bold letters when father/son duo's or first cousins get tested. A 200-hundred year old skeleton in the closet is one thing but when the people involved are still around it is all different matter isn't. This is one of the ethical considerations I didn't truely appreciate as a traditional genealogist. I think it is a big reason why so many people won't go anywhere near DNA testing. Some find it better to stick with a well researched paper trail then have decades of work blown away with a single test. David Weston. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Marleen Van Horne Sent: July 24, 2008 12:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] NPEs and other related issues <snip> Needless to say the man who was tested, his wife and I were stunned by the test results. That is in spite of the fact that I always warn my people that they might find out something about their ancestors they did not want to know. Marleen Van Horne ------------------------------- The topic of this list is Y-DNA *surname* projects. Discussion of geographic, haplogroup, or mtDNA projects is off topic for this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I welcome a list that is geared to surname projects. I administer the Carter, Tallent, and Kostelec Y-DNA project and am a participant (by way of my daughter-in-law's father) in the Stevenson project. The Carter DNA project was started in October of 2003 and currently has about 230 tested participants. Our website with results is at: www.carter-cousins.org. We have a great group and many people have been assisted with their genealogy by others in the group. Personally, I was able, through DNA testing, to find my ancestor in VA, born abt 1773, but have not found the "paper" record in Baltimore, MD to prove it. At least I know I am on the right track! And I am working with other researchers (who are much more knowledgeable than I) to try to find his ancestry. That said, our largest obstacle is receiving family information from participants to share on the website. It is frustrating to have a match with someone who will not share their genealogy. I explain to them that it doesn't need to be generated in a "program", just a simple narrative will do, but still don't always receive the information. Our group is not restricted in anyway. There is a restricted Carter project for those who desire that feature administered by the Carter Society. If someone with another surname has even heard the whisper of a Carter male in their past they are welcome to join ours. Who knows what they may learn from their matches. I do recommend 37+ marker tests when asked. Vickie

I am the administrator of the Dorsey/Darsey/Darcy/Dawsey/Dossey/D'Arcy DNA Project, http://www.contexo.info/DorseyDNA. My first foray into DNA testing was in 2001 to solve an old family mystery of my great-great grandfather's origins, http://www.contexo.info/DorseyDNA/HarveyKelley.htm. Though we are only a medium size project, we have answered a number of questions that had plagued Dorsey, et al, researchers for years. At the present time, my own Dorsey line appears to lead to the illegitimate child of a Dorsey widow in colonial Baltimore. With a very unusual R1b1b2g haplotype, we are hopefully awaiting a spurious match with someone with a surname that can be traced back to colonial Maryland. The project also has six other well defined lineages, a number of which, not surprisingly, point to Irish origins. I am also a co-administrator of the Castor. . .Custer DNA Project which includes the names Castor - Caster - Coster - Custard - Custer - Gerster - Kaster - Keister - Kester Kiester - Kistard - Kister - Kistard - Koester - Koster - Kuester - Kustard - Kusterd - Kuster . . . The website for that project is at http://www.caoa-gen.org/caoa-webpage/dnaproj/dnamain.htm My husband and I also have a small spinoff of the Custer Project, the Cursiter Project, which includes the Cursiter (and many variant spellings) family of the Orkney Islands. No website for that yet as we are only a small family and we all know each other. Perhaps I will be inspired to set up a web page or two for that group. In the interim, Cursiter results are posted on ysearch BGPD5. Before I started the Dorsey Project, I set up a series of web pages about the basics of DNA for use by genealogists who are just learning to use DNA for genealogy. That website is at http://www.contexo.info/DNA_Basics/ I also sponsor a number of samples in other projects (my proxies for various other ancestral lines). Nancy Custer

Thanks. Hadn't seen that one before. I'll check it out. David. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Diana Gale Matthiesen Sent: July 24, 2008 11:47 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] project mailing lists Have you tried the Surname Origins list? http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/SURNAME-ORIGINS.htm l I just searched their archive for "DNA" and got 19 hits, so this list might be just the venue you're looking for. Diana

Sharon Bryant wrote: > I could dominate the conversation all by myself, Diana. However, I will be > nice. > > In a previous message I told you about the projects I administer so let me > tell you about the ones that members of my family are participants in. > > My maternal uncle, the only one left, did YDNA testing for me. I had mtDNA > testing done. Okay one side of the family done. > > My paternal grandmother was an Ikamire and her mother was a Mullinix (see > the pattern here? :>) ). > > My brother graciously said "well, what are brothers for?" and was tested for > our paternal Y line. I also have two sons by different husbands so have had > both of them tested. > > I'd like to talk about my brother's testing for a minute as it presents one > of the most frustrating results I've encountered. Our surname was Day and > for the longest time he had no matches at all. > > Then suddenly he had a 67/67 match! Whoopee! When I contacted the other > participant I found the following similarities. > > His ancestor was born in Virginia c 1775, probably Albemarle county. Mine > was born in Virginia c 1781, county unknown. > > His ancestor moved to Claiborne Co., TN. So did mine. > > Then both men moved to Putnam Co., IN where his ancestor died. Mine moved on > to Putnam Co., MO where he apparently died as he disappears after the 1860 > census. > > We have been able through tax records in Albemarle Co. to establish that his > ancestor's father's name was John. Couldn't have been something unusual like > Hezekiah! > > So here we are; the brick wall had a crack which has now sealed itself over > again. > > On one son's line I have a 67 marker test result, have done Deep SNP testing > including the U's and am waiting for 464X test results. He was adopted by > his stepfather and his birth father was adopted by his aunt and uncle. So I > have the paper trail and can prove his bloodline is of the Trail family but > can only get back as far as 1805, South Carolina. > > The other son is a Bryant and is a member of the O'Brien project. I play > with an even field so he has the same level of testing as his brother and my > brother. His earliest known ancestor is a Josiah Bryant. But wouldn't you > know there was more than one contemporary Josiahs. > > Sharon > > P.S. As if I didn't have enough "bricks" in my life, I'm having my kitchen > enlarged and I live in a brick house. :>) > > P.P.S. I'm also retired (professor of contract business management for DOD) > and am recovering from a stroke I had the first of June. Typing is > therapeutic! > > > > > > ------------------------------- > The topic of this list is Y-DNA *surname* projects. Discussion of geographic, haplogroup, or mtDNA projects is off topic for this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > Hi, its amazing how a stroke allows one the time to pursue One's interests. I had mine 31/2 years ago. still have My families decades old brick wall. my gggGrandfather David does not exist prior to the 1840 U.S. Census, Oneida County New York. at which time he was 55 years old. so the search goes on. I wish You well, Enjoy the Day, Ned.

Hello; Diana and Everyone. I am Ned Jimmerson, retired. i have an ongoing desire to find the beginning of the jimmerson line. T help in that search i had a YDNA test done. the results of which gave Me a 34/37 match with a Jamieson. i am a member of the Jamieson Surname droup at FTDNA and the Jamison group at World Families. there is no Jimmerson group as I can not persuade anyone else to test and I haven't the cash flow to pay for anyone to be tested. my retirement was due to heal th reasons so the flow of testing cash is nil. I am open to any suggestions on how to awaken an interest, in long dead relatives; in the 20 to 40 yearold men I find on facebook and Google images. Enjoy, the Day, Ned Jimmerson

I’m a newspaper publisher in Washington state and have become addicted over the past decade to the detective work involved in genealogy and the big rushes that come when those last pieces fall into place to solve mysteries or make connections. It has given me a tremendously enhanced feeling of connection with my family’s past and with American and European history. Being able to place my ancestors within the context of events -- great or mundane -- still feels rather miraculous. Far improved access to genealogical records along with DNA analysis make this the golden age for family research. I so wish I could share all I’ve learned with my late father. Along with administering the Winter-Winters project, I’m involved with the H4 mtDNA project, and keep meaning to find time to ramp up that site. Although it still isn’t an especially common surname, Winter and its related forms were independently adopted by quite a number of family founders in the British Isles and the Germanic region. Although we’re closing in on two dozen project members, one of my third cousins and I are really the only participants with an absolutely solid familial connection. Two other participants match 23/25 and thus may be related. A couple other potential matches have only tested 12 markers, which I consider next to worthless. Although mostly R1b, we have members who are I, J1, J2 and C3. A non-member on Ysearch is Q. Aside from genetic matchmaking for other participants, my personal goals are to (A) confirm paper genealogical findings by recruiting more descendants of my immigrant ancestor, John Winter of Watertown, Mass., and (B) recruiting more participants from Britain in hopes of placing John in Norfolk, from whence all inferences suggest he came but where early written records are challenging at best. I’ll look forward to whatever advice and support this discussion can provide.

Actually, I don't need to. The List Admin for our Rootsweb WESTON mailing list has no problem with me discussing DNA topics on the list, which I do on occassion. The challenge their of course is the audience knows very little about DNA testing and hasn't expressed any interest. Effectively, I end up talking to an empty room :-) I need a place, where people no what I am talking about and are tackling similiar questions about their surname origins. The challenge for me in using other DNA lists is that my interests cross the boundaries of many lists, where no one list covers all the topics I am looking to discuss. And, Genealogy-DNA is too technical and tends to ignore queries of a personal research nature, unless you're one of the gurus. I've tried. I am not aware of any list (nor do I have the time to start one), that covers the period from around the 11th to 15th centuries when western European surnames were first being adopted. Oh well, that's why we have books :-) Cheers, David. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Diana Gale Matthiesen Sent: July 24, 2008 10:14 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] project mailing lists David brought up the matter of whether he could talk about the early, pre-paper ancestry of his WESTONs on this list, and I had to say no, because I thought these could best be discussed on a haplogroup or regional list -- or GENEALOGY-DNA. But there is another option. Have you considered opening a WESTON-DNA mailing list? I see there isn't one: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/DNA/ I've opened a surname-DNA list for each of my projects, and I don't think I can conceive of having a project without one. The problem with a WESTON-DNA list might be that, for discussions that are "pre-paper," it might not give you a broad enough audience. A haplogroup or regional list might still be the way to go. Diana

Have you tried the Surname Origins list? http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/SURNAME-ORIGINS.htm l I just searched their archive for "DNA" and got 19 hits, so this list might be just the venue you're looking for. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] On Behalf Of David Weston > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 9:57 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] project mailing lists > > Actually, I don't need to. The List Admin for our Rootsweb > WESTON mailing list has no problem with > me discussing DNA topics on the list, which I do on > occassion. The challenge their of course is the > audience knows very little about DNA testing and hasn't > expressed any interest. Effectively, I end > up talking to an empty room :-) > > I need a place, where people no what I am talking about and > are tackling similiar questions about > their surname origins. The challenge for me in using other > DNA lists is that my interests cross the > boundaries of many lists, where no one list covers all the > topics I am looking to discuss. And, > Genealogy-DNA is too technical and tends to ignore queries of > a personal research nature, unless > you're one of the gurus. I've tried. I am not aware of any > list (nor do I have the time to start > one), that covers the period from around the 11th to 15th > centuries when western European surnames > were first being adopted. > > Oh well, that's why we have books :-) > > Cheers, David. >

Thank you, Diana. It's good to get these things sorted out up front. At the risk of getting "off-topic" with the "off-topic" thread, I will ask one more question for clarification :-) What about the new "Family" SNPs being offered by FTDNA whose likely only value will be to confirm familial relationships within a genealogical time frame? It was posted elsewhere that FTDNA would even be contacting various surname project admins to further their R&D of these products. I was going to ask they list if any surname project admins had been contacted yet and if they thought they would be a benefit. Cheers, David. P.S. I am posted these queries to the list instead of directly to you in case others have the same questions. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Diana Gale Matthiesen Sent: July 24, 2008 10:07 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] off topic Thank you for asking, David, and for giving me an opportunity to discuss the reasons for the limitations of the list. I'm going to be pretty strict about keeping the focus here on STR testing and Y-DNA surname projects, in genealogical time. It is not my intention for this list to compete with GENEALOGY-DNA where haplogroups, ethnicity, and deep ancestry are major topics of discussion. Please keep in mind that RootsWeb would not have given me this list if I hadn't defined it in such a way that it doesn't compete with existing lists. When you reach the point in your research where you're sliding off the paper trail and correlating haplogroups, geography, and ethnicity, you are really at the point where the discussion would be better taken to a haplogroup list or regional list, anyway. But here, too, the reason for restricting discussion on this list is not that there is no intellectual connection between the topics, but that I've had to narrowly define the list in order to get the list. So, to answer you directly... Yes, I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I would have to consider the topics you mention in your last paragraph to be off topic for the list. Diana P.S. Your query brings up the issue of creating mailing lists, so I'll start another thread.

Posting these queries on the list is fine, David. The list is new, and we're all getting our feet wet here. With regard to "family" SNPs, this is still SNP testing. I'm going to suggest these be discussed on the haplogroup lists, at least for now. Here, again, it's a matter of not treading on the turf of the haplogroup projects and lists. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] On Behalf Of David Weston > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 9:44 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Y-DNA-projects] off topic > > Thank you, Diana. It's good to get these things sorted out > up front. At the risk of getting > "off-topic" with the "off-topic" thread, I will ask one more > question for clarification :-) > > What about the new "Family" SNPs being offered by FTDNA whose > likely only value will be to confirm > familial relationships within a genealogical time frame? It > was posted elsewhere that FTDNA would > even be contacting various surname project admins to further > their R&D of these products. I was > going to ask they list if any surname project admins had been > contacted yet and if they thought they > would be a benefit. > > Cheers, David. > > P.S. I am posted these queries to the list instead of > directly to you in case others have the same > questions. > >

Roberta, We have had two descendants of Solomon Oden tested, both matched one another 100%. I do not know if they descended from different sons. On this project I have a co-manager and this is his line. I am not sure how many sons Solomon had, but I think it was only two or three. In the case of Thomas Oden, we have genetic, and conventional evidence that he was the brother of Hezekiah and Alexander Oden of Edgefield County, South Carolina. Initially, one descendant from each of the four men was tested. The descendants of Thomas and his brothers matched 100%. The descendant of Solomon did not match. We have subsequently had a second descendant of Solomon tested and three more from the brothers. We have no reason to suspect a MAP in Solomon's line, or that he was a MAP, but as you know, anything is possible. Thomas Oden's family was extremely disfunctional. In 1793, his wife was given a legal separation, and he was forced to provide for her and their children, based on proven extreme abuse. We have speculated that this may have been caused by her being unfaithful. But if Solomon was her son, he can not be tracked in any of the conventional documents related to this family. He would have been entitled to a share of her estate, and he is not mentioned in the settlement. Except for the surname, in conventional genealogy, there is no reason to believe he is connected to the family of Thomas Oden. Marleen

Hi I have my name listed as either admin or co-admin on: CHESTER; GASKINS; MACE; POORMAN; RILEY; ROBARDS; SPRINGER; and STANSBURY. I'm most active in SPRINGER where I'm the co-administrator. I sort of weasled my way into that position :) My available time for gen is spent mostly on this project and my own family tree. I used to have more time, but my DH sort of retired and his job now is to bug me every time he walks by and I'm on the computer. The SPRINGER results are at: http://tinyurl.com/27359h The project's admin keeps the FTDNA site up. My dad is in the Dennis Group, and that is where I work the most, and have spent the most. I've tried to keep everyone in the other groups interested and encouraged, but everyone has their own goals and level of interest. I wish every 'sub-group' in every project had it's own co-administrator/cheerleader. Ugh, I could write more but I'm out of time :) melissa springer robards

Diana, To contribute to your rant, this is why it is critical that all our surname project participants be strongly encouraged to upload all their YDNA results to YSearch and YBase, and to set their personal pages to display matches against the entire company databases not just their surname project. Doing so greatly aids those of trying to get through NPEs or looking for info on other ancestral lines. I regularly check YSearch to see if some one on one of my other ancestral lines has tested, and I have found one by doing so. Admins also have to get themselves out of their mindset that it is "their" data. It's not. It's the participants and the participant should be the one who decides who gets to see it our not. Admins who behave otherwise do themselves and their participants a great disservice. But then again Admins who are overly controlling of their participants YDNA are likely not on this list because that would require being open minded. :-) David. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Diana Gale Matthiesen Sent: July 24, 2008 8:10 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Y-DNA-projects] sharing of results - rant warning Ah, now I understand. This touches on the issue of making project results public, something I have a very strong opinion about. I feel the same way about people who won't share DNA data as I do about people who won't share their genealogical research (and, for obvious reasons, they're often the same persons). I'm a retired scientist, and I've never seen a field of research where there is more "reinventing of the wheel" as there is in genealogy. The purpose of sharing your research is so that the next person can take up where you left off and move us all that much further. If everyone has to start at square one, none of us will advance beyond what one person can do in a lifetime. If we share, the "rising tide lifts all boats." The admonition for a researcher to "publish or perish" is serious. It means, if you aren't publishing, you must not be accomplishing anything, and if you're not accomplishing anything, you're not doing your job as a researcher. Or put another way, the last step in any research project is to publish the results. If you haven't shared your work by publishing, you haven't finished. And how many genealogists have held on to their work, literally with a death grip, and had it thrown away by their heirs? What a colossal waste. I wish genealogy could be infused with the ethic to publish (to share), the same way academic research is infused with that ethic. However, I realize it's not my place to preach philosophy here. What is my place is to complain about the harm being done to genealogists and genealogy by DNA projects being secretive. We have just one patrilineal and one matrilineal line. These are only two of many ancestral lines each of us have. To gain an appreciation of how many, I periodically remind myself by viewing this table: http://dgmweb.net/genealogy/Ancillary/OnE/NumberAncestors.shtml I want to prove all the lines in my pedigree, not just my patrilineal line, and I presume at least most of us share that goal. To accomplish this goal, we're going to need others to share their results with us, just as we are sharing our results with them. I frankly cannot fathom why anyone wants to keep their results secret, although the motive of one project is clear... I had one family association running a project that made me join the association ($20) to get a copy of the results from them. All I got was a table of 25-marker results and the name of the earliest ancestor. My line is R1b, so 25 markers is simply not enough. But there's no contact information for me to find out if the person has tested more markers or to urge them to do so if they haven't. If I want to continue to be sent results, I will have to continue with an annual $20 subscription. I simply can't afford to belong to all the family associations for all the surnames in my pedigree, and there aren't words to express how much I resent paying for information when I'm giving it away for free. If we all charged for information, none of us could afford to get anywhere! There's another project for one of the surnames in my pedigree where all I could get out of the project admin was the progenitor's haplogroup. I've still have no idea whom we match, whether my line has been tested, or whether we've "crossed the pond." Please forgive the rant, but I do *not* understand this mindset. I commend you for at least trying to help those you can on an individual basis. You are making me so glad there is no family association for my surname. Diana

I could dominate the conversation all by myself, Diana. However, I will be nice. In a previous message I told you about the projects I administer so let me tell you about the ones that members of my family are participants in. My maternal uncle, the only one left, did YDNA testing for me. I had mtDNA testing done. Okay one side of the family done. My paternal grandmother was an Ikamire and her mother was a Mullinix (see the pattern here? :>) ). My brother graciously said "well, what are brothers for?" and was tested for our paternal Y line. I also have two sons by different husbands so have had both of them tested. I'd like to talk about my brother's testing for a minute as it presents one of the most frustrating results I've encountered. Our surname was Day and for the longest time he had no matches at all. Then suddenly he had a 67/67 match! Whoopee! When I contacted the other participant I found the following similarities. His ancestor was born in Virginia c 1775, probably Albemarle county. Mine was born in Virginia c 1781, county unknown. His ancestor moved to Claiborne Co., TN. So did mine. Then both men moved to Putnam Co., IN where his ancestor died. Mine moved on to Putnam Co., MO where he apparently died as he disappears after the 1860 census. We have been able through tax records in Albemarle Co. to establish that his ancestor's father's name was John. Couldn't have been something unusual like Hezekiah! So here we are; the brick wall had a crack which has now sealed itself over again. On one son's line I have a 67 marker test result, have done Deep SNP testing including the U's and am waiting for 464X test results. He was adopted by his stepfather and his birth father was adopted by his aunt and uncle. So I have the paper trail and can prove his bloodline is of the Trail family but can only get back as far as 1805, South Carolina. The other son is a Bryant and is a member of the O'Brien project. I play with an even field so he has the same level of testing as his brother and my brother. His earliest known ancestor is a Josiah Bryant. But wouldn't you know there was more than one contemporary Josiahs. Sharon P.S. As if I didn't have enough "bricks" in my life, I'm having my kitchen enlarged and I live in a brick house. :>) P.P.S. I'm also retired (professor of contract business management for DOD) and am recovering from a stroke I had the first of June. Typing is therapeutic!