Terry ~ I am Z60+. I had a hunch I'd be Z73 derived in spite the ISOGG I1 tree. I was relying on a I1 tree diagram done by the Russian (screen name Pastor_Shag - I'll simple refer to him here as PS). I have referred to PS earlier. I have no sense about this stuff myself, other than intuition(often wrong) and the work you, Ken, and many others have generously shared. PS's proposed SNP chart was posted many weeks ago on another forum. That forum is currently unavailable. While I can't share the chart with you, he did have Z73 downstream of Z60. My own SNP chart is based on his work which you can see here: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1zY7StsPYK7y0d8UzDXRDYfyeZIuaRyurSrNnIM5fOpM/edit Here's a link to his SNP map for his collection of guys reporting Z60+: http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/map-snp/1154/ In addition, PS maintains this chart, I1 new SNPs" at google docs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag4TAbUs4_O2dDNLUHpoWWo2VEw4cHBTVUgxVURTQXc#gid=0 What I like about the "I1 new SNPs" chart is one can easily see the progress of who has tested what SNP and what SNP an individual might wish to test for. Best, Roy Roy Silfven rsilfven@bendcable.com