KEN: I'm not sure what you are asking? Both Maxwell and Keaveney 113806 ought to be L161+ And then all that remains are more STR markers --- the 68-111 set. They will narrow somewhat the statistical uncertainty in the tmrca between the two. ******************************************* Thank you--you answered my question. I wanted to make sure there weren't any new downstream SNP's they should consider. I'll suggest an upgrade to Y-111, but at the moment I think they are more interested in testing another Kevan if we can find one who is willing to accept a free DNA test. We've made one offer, but so far he hasn't accepted. Lindsey