Z58 and Z63 are parallel. When we have the DF29 results from a Z63 person, and if the Z63 person tests positive for DF29 as is expected, then DF29 will be definitely placed upstream from Z58, as is expected as well. No point in testing any additional Z58 haplotype for DF29 at this point, no matter how unusual it may be. Part of my job as a project administrator is to keep members up-to-date with discoveries and to make recommendations. Project members are grown adults and are responsible for their own decisions. In other words, they spend their money how they wish. It is not up to me or you to tell them what to do [or not to do] with their money. All we can do is make recommendations. I am very pleased with the advances we have made in the I2b1/M223 project this past year, for instance, and I believe the project members are as well. We completely reconfigured the I2b1/M223 tree, which makes their genealogical research much easier. This progress is a result of actual testing, not guesstimation. Thanks, Aaron Torres Re: [yDNAhgI] First DF29 results Thursday, March 22, 2012 1:34 PM From: "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained. -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Salles Torres DF29 is supposedly upstream from Z58, Z63 and L22. We have many DF29 tests on order for the latter two branches, so I think we should wait for those results first before encouraging further testing for individuals who are Z58+. Aaron Torres [[ Considering all the wholesale snp tests you have encouraged, this message is a surprise. I have been focusing on one special place in the tree which all the other DF29 tests under the Sun would not help us, I believe. Question 1:  Is there any person confirmed Z58+ but negative for Z59 and Z138/or/Z139?  I think such people are extremely rare or not yet seen. Question 2:  That seems the only kind of person who could put the DF29 definitely upstream of Z58 --- as long as we still wait to position L22 relative to DF29.  KN ]]