Hello Terry, I'm terribly sorry that my critique offended you, and I do apologize. I thought you wanted honest reactions. I have a 16,000+ page genealogy web site, most of it family group sheets. There isn't a week that goes by without my getting a message from someone one raking me over the coals for a mistake. I've learned not to take it personally. My site is the better for it. Diana http://dgmweb.net/GenealogyHome.html > -----Original Message----- > From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna- > haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Terry > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 10:12 AM > To: Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New Online Tool for Haplotype Analysis (only > for y-Haplogroups I1 and I2 at present) > > Diana, > > There are people out there who have paper-trails and know their > ancestry > and place of origin, and they have done all relevant SNP tests, and > they > have identified all their close STR marker matches. All the tool can > do for > such people is hopefully confirm what they already know. > > But there is another group of people who don't have such > information. Those > people surely would appreciate the output from the free tool I > provided. In > the last few hours since posting I have received private emails > confirming > to me the utility of the tool in such situations. In contrast, I > found your > earlier, and public, comments unnecessarily harsh and discouraging > and now > contrary to what others are seeing. If you can't see the utility > for > others, then fine. > > Terry > > > On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 12:07 AM, Diana Matthiesen > <Diana@danishdemes.org>wrote: > > > Terry, > > > > I'm certainly not criticizing your sincerity or generosity. I > take it > > as a given that we are all sincere - and obviously working hard to > > help others, without thought of compensation. > > > > I suspect I'm not understanding the function of the tool. And I > guess > > I reacted negatively because I wouldn't want one of my project > members > > to see it, then think they needed to be SNP tested, when other > family > > members have already been exhaustively tested. > > > > If someone (e.g., an adoptee or NPE) has a significant Y-DNA STR > match > > with one of my project members, I will get an email notification > from > > FTDNA, and they will show up as a match on the "Matches" tab of my > > members' pages, at which point I contact them. In all > probability, I > > will ask them to join my project, regardless of their surname. > IOW, > > once there's a match, they don't need to seek me out, I will seek > them > > out. > > > > I guess I'm having trouble putting myself in the shoes of someone > > without a project admin to help them and who is that much "at a > loss" > > at where to begin. I mean, STRAUB is a German name, and my > > great-grandfather spoke German. The question was never where our > > origin in Europe was, it was only where in Germany it was. > > > > But, yes, I realize not everyone starts with that amount of > > information. There's obviously more than one way to look at this. > > > > Diana > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna- > > > haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Terry > > > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 6:35 AM > > > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New Online Tool for Haplotype Analysis > (only > > > for y-Haplogroups I1 and I2 at present) > > > > > > Diana, > > > Wow - I think you have completely underestimated the utility of > the > > > tool. > > > > > > Undoubtedly, you know a great deal about your own project and > where > > > your > > > project members originate from, and the various SNP that they > might > > > carry. > > > That is great. > > > > > > With the tool that I posted - as a free service - it takes as > input > > > the > > > 67-marker STR values and nothing else, and from that the tool > gives > > > some > > > facts about geographic distribution and SNP allele status. In > the > > > example > > > you cited, the tool would have said that the individual would > > > probably have > > > Germany as a place of ancestry (which is correct as it turns > out), > > > and it > > > also says that they would be Z58+ (which is correct in your > > > example), and > > > that they would be Z139+/Z138+ with 80% chance (as it turns out, > > > your > > > example is in the 20% minority). > > > > > > And the tool gives a list of close STR matching people, and is > full > > > of > > > people with the same surname - information that the tool did not > > > use. If > > > the individual had been adopted and didn't know any family > history, > > > and was > > > not a member of your specific project, then the tool would have > > > found that > > > other surname. > > > > > > So the tool got things right for your particular example - > perhaps > > > your > > > knew all that information anyway. But the tool can do that for > > > *anyone*, > > > provided I have their kit number and STR data (which is limited > to > > > many I1 > > > and I2 people at present) to create the tree. > > > > > > Surely the output is useful? Why are you so negative about an > honest > > > and > > > sincere effort on my part to share some useful information to > all I1 > > > and I2 > > > people? Perhaps I shouldn't waste my time and do the same thing > for > > > R1b and > > > R1a people? > > > > > > Terry > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Diana Matthiesen > > > <Diana@danishdemes.org>wrote: > > > > > > > Hello Terry, > > > > > > > > I commend you for your efforts, but I'm afraid I see problems > > > here. > > > > > > > > I'm the admin of the STRAUB Y-DNA Surname Project, and STRAUB > > > #23492 > > > > is my Hg I1-AS5 first cousin. If you search on his kit > number, > > > you > > > > get a list of STRAUB, STROUP, STROPP, CRUMP, and BELEW: > > > > http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi?Kit=23492 > > > > > > > > Everyone on this list (as of this morning) is a member of the > same > > > > family in my STRAUB project, and they are matching at high STR > > > marker > > > > levels (107/111 or better): > > > > http://dgmweb.net/DNA/Straub/StraubDNA-results-HgI1-AS5.html > > > > > > > > Several have been deep SNP tested, and one has been > exhaustively > > > SNP > > > > tested, even to the extent of discovering L592+ in a WTY. > Unless > > > a > > > > new SNP is discovered and needs testing, I see no reason for > any > > > of > > > > them to be further SNP tested, and I especially don't see any > > > reason > > > > for any of them to test a SNP upstream of Z58: > > > > http://dgmweb.net/DNA/General/SNP-maxout-HgI1.html#L592 > > > > > > > > I'm sorry to be a wet blanket, here, but I really don't see > how > > > this > > > > decision can be automated, at all. There are other factors to > > > take > > > > into account, such as, "Have any other members of this family > been > > > SNP > > > > tested, and what were their results?" > > > > > > > > If someone can't figure out, for themselves, what they need to > > > test, > > > > my best advice is to ask on this list - or privately ask one > of > > > the > > > > admins of the Hg I1 project. > > > > > > > > Diana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Behalf Of Terry > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 11:46 PM > > > > > > > > > > There are common questions that people often have in regards > to > > > > > their > > > > > 67-marker STR test results. > > > > > > > > > > Such as place of geographic origin, likely SNP mutations, or > > > close > > > > > haplotype matches etc. > > > > > > > > > > To answer such questions it helps to know where someone's > 67- > > > marker > > > > > STR > > > > > result fits in with everyone else's result. A rational way > of > > > > > organising > > > > > results is to compute a hierarchical cluster tree, and then > > > > > systematically > > > > > label each person in that tree according to an STR "Branch > > > Code". > > > > > This > > > > > Branch Code labelling system is very similar to the "Henry > > > System" > > > > > used in > > > > > genealogy for numbering the known descendants of an > ancestor. > > > > > > > > > > Easiest to see what I mean, by checking out the tool at: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.goggo.com/cgi-bin/branchFind.cgi > > > > > > > > > > You can enter your FTDNA Kit Number or Ysearch ID (currently > > > only > > > > > works for > > > > > haplogroups I1 and I2), and if the entry is valid, you will > get > > > your > > > > > Branch > > > > > Code, and then the following output: > > > > > > > > > > 1) a short list of close matches, and the estimated time- > frame > > > for > > > > > the > > > > > common ancestor of the very closest match; > > > > > > > > > > 2) a map showing the frequency of occurrence of your > Branch > > > Code > > > > > in all > > > > > countries/regions across Europe; > > > > > > > > > > 3) a list of SNP mutation pathways, with suggestions for > your > > > > > likely path > > > > > based on your Branch Code. > > > > > > > > > > Finally, there is a link that discusses the simple > methodology I > > > > > used, and > > > > > that link also gives additional details such as the computed > > > tree > > > > > showing > > > > > the "big picture" view of how people in y-Haplogroups I1 and > I2 > > > are > > > > > connected. > > > > > > > > > > Eventually, I may add y-Haplogroups R1b and R1a. > > > > > > > > > > In the meantime, for I1 and I2 people, let me know how you > go. > > > > > > > > > > Terry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA- > > > HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA- > HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message