As one of the volunteer administrators of the FTDNA I2a Project (I-P37.2) I often get questions from "Dinarics" asking about SNP testing and their place in the Haplogroup I tree. Below is my response earlier today to one of our members, I'm sending it to this mailing list and I will probably send a similar message to all of our Dinaric members too. Bernie Cullen What SNP tests have you done? None. FTDNA has only predicted you to be P37.2+ which is I2a according to their tree. That is the most specific prediction that they will make, even though it is obvious that you are I2a2. What SNP tests should you do? None, according to Bill Morrow and me, because your 25 markers match the Dinaric modal very well and all Dinarics have tested exactly the same way on all known SNPs. (except see note below about P41.2). What SNP tests could you do if you wanted certainty? M423, you will be M423+ like Dinarics and Disles and Isles, and your official haplogroup designation at FTDNA will be changed to a green I2a2. L69, you will be L69+ like Dinarics and Disles but Isles are L69-. This SNP is not part of the FTDNA tree and will never be part of the tree, and your official FTDNA haplogroup designation will not change based on your L69 result. L621, you will be L621+ like Dinarics and Disles but Isles are L621-. This SNP is not part of the FTDNA tree and your official FTDNA haplogroup designation will not change right now based on your L69 result. But probably it will be added to the tree later this year or next. L147, you will be L147+ like Dinarics but Disles and Isles are L147-. This SNP is not part of the FTDNA tree and will never be part of the tree, and your official FTDNA haplogroup designation will not change based on your L147 result. P41.2, you will very likely be P41.2- like all Dinarics in our project and all known I2a people at Family Tree DNA. Scientific papers have reported that about 1% of M423+ people in Bosnia and Croatia are P41.2+ but P41.2+ has not been found in other countries. There is a very small chance you could be P41.2+. Should you order a Deep Clade test or individual SNP tests? Probably individual SNP tests. A Deep Clade test cost $89 and you will very likely receive P37.2+ M423+ P41.2- results. Individual SNP tests cost $29 each plus a one time $9.50 charge for your first individual SNP order. There are multiple versions of the L147 test and you should order the L147.2 version. How do you order the tests? Login to your FTDNA personal page with your kit number and password.Click "Order an Upgrade" at the upper right. For a Deep Clade Test, click "Order Deep Clade Test" For individual SNPs, click "Order Advanced Test" (NOT Order Advanced SNP Test). In the Test Type box, choose SNP. In the marker box, type the test you want to order and click Find. Click Add and the page will refresh and you will see the test in your cart. Click Next at the lower right to give payment information. Finally, should you be called I2a or I2a2 or I2a2a or I2a1b or something else? At the Family Tree DNA project, Bill Morrow and I have been calling all Dinarics and Disles I2a2a and all Isles people I2a2b. Officially Family Tree DNA calls Dinarics and Disles I2a2 and Isles people I2a2b, or they call someone just I2a if he has not done SNP testing. Other sources, like haplgroup I expert Ken Nordvedt and www.isogg.org have rearranged the entire I2 tree and call Dinarics I2a1b1a or I2a1b3. (The difference between Ken and ISOGG comes from whether P41.2 and L147 are included in the tree). Our project probably will keep calling Dinarics I2a2a until one of two things happens: FTDNA updates its tree or new discoveries are made that clarify the relationship between the five known branches of P37.2 (which are M26, M423, L233 and "Alpine", L880, and P37.2*-"France") Bernie

[[ I personally don't consider it very important to consider whether a key snp pertinent to your haplotype is or will likely eventually be in some company's or organization's y tree. Such organizations by their nature and inertia will always be somewhat behind the times in the constant redrawing of the y tree as new knowledge is accumulated, and the things put in or omitted from organizations' trees are somewhat influenced by political and business matters not important to us hobbyists . Better to collect the full evidence and recommendations of those especially tracking the portion of the y tree where you reside. This way you will learn about the most informative snps and/or key STR marker values for pinpointing your location in the most up to date y tree. And it is important to keep in mind that this tree is a constantly changing construction based on the growing body of empirical data from tests and the organization of that data. KN ]] -----Original Message----- From: Bernie Cullen Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:00 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: [yDNAhgI] What SNP tests should Dinarics do? Are Dinarics I2a2, I2a2a, I2a1b1a or I2a1b3? My response. As one of the volunteer administrators of the FTDNA I2a Project (I-P37.2) I often get questions from "Dinarics" asking about SNP testing and their place in the Haplogroup I tree. Below is my response earlier today to one of our members, I'm sending it to this mailing list and I will probably send a similar message to all of our Dinaric members too. Bernie Cullen What SNP tests have you done? None. FTDNA has only predicted you to be P37.2+ which is I2a according to their tree. That is the most specific prediction that they will make, even though it is obvious that you are I2a2. What SNP tests should you do? None, according to Bill Morrow and me, because your 25 markers match the Dinaric modal very well and all Dinarics have tested exactly the same way on all known SNPs. (except see note below about P41.2). What SNP tests could you do if you wanted certainty? M423, you will be M423+ like Dinarics and Disles and Isles, and your official haplogroup designation at FTDNA will be changed to a green I2a2. L69, you will be L69+ like Dinarics and Disles but Isles are L69-. This SNP is not part of the FTDNA tree and will never be part of the tree, and your official FTDNA haplogroup designation will not change based on your L69 result. L621, you will be L621+ like Dinarics and Disles but Isles are L621-. This SNP is not part of the FTDNA tree and your official FTDNA haplogroup designation will not change right now based on your L69 result. But probably it will be added to the tree later this year or next. L147, you will be L147+ like Dinarics but Disles and Isles are L147-. This SNP is not part of the FTDNA tree and will never be part of the tree, and your official FTDNA haplogroup designation will not change based on your L147 result. P41.2, you will very likely be P41.2- like all Dinarics in our project and all known I2a people at Family Tree DNA. Scientific papers have reported that about 1% of M423+ people in Bosnia and Croatia are P41.2+ but P41.2+ has not been found in other countries. There is a very small chance you could be P41.2+. Should you order a Deep Clade test or individual SNP tests? Probably individual SNP tests. A Deep Clade test cost $89 and you will very likely receive P37.2+ M423+ P41.2- results. Individual SNP tests cost $29 each plus a one time $9.50 charge for your first individual SNP order. There are multiple versions of the L147 test and you should order the L147.2 version. How do you order the tests? Login to your FTDNA personal page with your kit number and password.Click "Order an Upgrade" at the upper right. For a Deep Clade Test, click "Order Deep Clade Test" For individual SNPs, click "Order Advanced Test" (NOT Order Advanced SNP Test). In the Test Type box, choose SNP. In the marker box, type the test you want to order and click Find. Click Add and the page will refresh and you will see the test in your cart. Click Next at the lower right to give payment information. Finally, should you be called I2a or I2a2 or I2a2a or I2a1b or something else? At the Family Tree DNA project, Bill Morrow and I have been calling all Dinarics and Disles I2a2a and all Isles people I2a2b. Officially Family Tree DNA calls Dinarics and Disles I2a2 and Isles people I2a2b, or they call someone just I2a if he has not done SNP testing. Other sources, like haplgroup I expert Ken Nordvedt and www.isogg.org have rearranged the entire I2 tree and call Dinarics I2a1b1a or I2a1b3. (The difference between Ken and ISOGG comes from whether P41.2 and L147 are included in the tree). Our project probably will keep calling Dinarics I2a2a until one of two things happens: FTDNA updates its tree or new discoveries are made that clarify the relationship between the five known branches of P37.2 (which are M26, M423, L233 and "Alpine", L880, and P37.2*-"France") Bernie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message