This paper by Battaglia (2008) was briefly discussed here in 2009 (see old posts below) and mentioned again recently on dna-forums.org and I took a look. Not only did they find three P41.2+ people in Bosniac and Croat samples, they also found one M26+ person and one I-P37.2* person in their FYROM-Albania sample. (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia). They go on to discuss the I-P37.2* people: Page 3 "Although I-M423 comprises virtually all the I-P37.2 Balkan-related chromosomes reported earlier, we have also detected one I-P37.2* Albanian subject and, from a screening of previously identified P37.2 chromosomes (Rootsi et al and SMGF collection), 30 further P37.2* subjects, two from Moldavia and 28 of either documented or presumed western European ancestry,were identified." (From their Figure 2, I think this Albanian is from Macedonia--Bernie) Page 8 ". Also, virtually, all the I-P37.2* paragroup members identified in this survey harbouring the peculiar DYS388-15 trinucleotide repeat motif (not observed in any other Hg I clade) likely represent a new rare P37.2 sub-clade. Their distribution (Supplementary Table S1) and the associated YSTR variation age of ~4000 years (Table 1) suggest that they expanded demographically, perhaps from central European regions during the Bronze Age. In this scenario, the only I-P37.2* chromosome observed in Albania, not characterized by the unusual DYS388-15 repeat motif marker, could either represent the consequence of a reversion event back to the ancestral allele or be a rare representative of the ancestral P37.2 state" So they have noticed the "Western" type of I-P37.2, the kind with DYS388=15. Ken Nordtvedt discovered this group some time before 2008. We now know that most of this group is L233+, called I2a3 at FTDNA. As far as I can tell most of these Western people mentioned in the paper were discovered in the SMGF collection and/or from old samples from the Rootsi 2004 paper, and have Western European ancestry mostly. They were included in this 2008 paper about the Balkan purely to describe the "new" I-P37.2* group with DYS388=15. But I wonder what the single Albanian I-P37.2* is? He doesn't have the DYS388=15, and probably doesn't have DYS388=9 like the I-P37.2* "France" group (I think they would have mentioned this). I can see the paper but I don't see the supplementary data and I don't know if they provide haplotypes for any of these people. Bernie On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Ken Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> wrote: > I see I have the paper and the M423 haplotype data.  However, I don't see > the P41+ triplet indicated.  Someone must contact the paper authors I guess. > > If anyone has the identification of these three, please let us know. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zdenko" <zdenko.markovic@tel.net.ba> > To: <y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 4:25 PM > Subject: [yDNAhgI] I-P41.2(M359.2) from "Y-chromosomal evidence of the ...." > > >> Looking at supplemental data from "Y-chromosomal evidence of the cultural >> diffusion of agriculture in southeast Europe" >> Vincenza Battaglia ... I noticed they found three I-P41.2 aka M-359.2 (one >> from Croatia and two from Bosnia and Herzegovina). >> >> Zdenko >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- ---I read every email but I'm not always able to respond immediately. If you think you've been waiting too long for a reply, please, email me again at berniecullen@gmail.com--