snps can happen at location of any generational transition on any branch of the y tree (with equal probability, more or less). Sometimes they might happen within a clade to further tag a downstream point and divide a clade. The amazing thing is how often they tag entire clades earlier found from STR extended haplotype clustering. (I am not talking about games played with the mini or micro haplotypes). Sometimes they slice in a different way very weak classifications like C1 and C2 in M223*. I'm talking about L801. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Marek Skarbek Kozietulski Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 2:36 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Fw: [DNA] New I1 Haplogroup Project: Z58+ and Z63+/T2 <Dr Nordtvedt: Not exactly; the Z snps have so far mainly given formal credentials to the I1 clades earlier found by examining the off-equilibrium clustering of extended STR haplotypes (sort of like giving marriage licenses to common-law couples on their 50th anniversaries), and helping sort out the time relationships of those clade foundings.> I think it is important that the new SNP tree is compatible to the old STR tree, i.e. no one old STR subclade is partitioned among two or more SNPs. The only thing which probably will be not quite adequate is the descriptor AS of some STR subclades, but this is not a big problem. Best regards, Marek Skarbek Kozietulski -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 1:11 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com; genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Fw: [DNA] New I1 Haplogroup Project: Z58+ and Z63+/T2 -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Salles Torres discoveries by 1,000 Genome Project volunteers led to a Z SNP revolution that shook the entire I1 haplogroup. [[Not exactly; the Z snps have so far mainly given formal credentials to the I1 clades earlier found by examining the off-equilibrium clustering of extended STR haplotypes (sort of like giving marriage licenses to common-law couples on their 50th anniversaries), and helping sort out the time relationships of those clade foundings. The I1 generics will be sorted out in a more timely fashion with the Z snps, but this will still be a very slow process, and it could be speeded up by the (more costly) process of extensions to 111 STRs. KN ]] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4784 - Release Date: 02/03/12 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message