I agree that DYS557=17 appears to have a correlation with Balkans. Does 557 =17 correlate with DYs448 = 19? Or how about DYS449 correlation? Ken -----Original Message----- From: simo Recently I spent some time by observing haplotypes, mostly 67 markers tested, trying to find some clearly South Slavic cluster, cluster which could be derived after Slavs setlled on Balkan in 6 and 7th century. On the first sight there is no any sign of teritorial clustering, but I believe there is one cluster which could be born in Herzegovina region (all families are from that area) within the existing I2a1b1 Dinaric South. Defining marker for this cluster could be DYS 557 with the value 17, while all remaining Dinaric South have value 16 or lower on that marker. I used one of internet utilities for TMRCA for particular group and time to most recent ancestor was about 1300-1400 years ago (or 6 to 7 century AD) time when Slavs migrated on Balkan.

Then again, when I go to Ysearch, the 557=17 Dinarics come mainly from Poland, and perhaps include more 448 = 20 than 448 = 19 -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 12:48 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I2a1b1 Dinaric, anything new? I agree that DYS557=17 appears to have a correlation with Balkans. Does 557 =17 correlate with DYs448 = 19? Or how about DYS449 correlation? Ken -----Original Message----- From: simo Recently I spent some time by observing haplotypes, mostly 67 markers tested, trying to find some clearly South Slavic cluster, cluster which could be derived after Slavs setlled on Balkan in 6 and 7th century. On the first sight there is no any sign of teritorial clustering, but I believe there is one cluster which could be born in Herzegovina region (all families are from that area) within the existing I2a1b1 Dinaric South. Defining marker for this cluster could be DYS 557 with the value 17, while all remaining Dinaric South have value 16 or lower on that marker. I used one of internet utilities for TMRCA for particular group and time to most recent ancestor was about 1300-1400 years ago (or 6 to 7 century AD) time when Slavs migrated on Balkan. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

As far I saw in Dinaric North there is very few DYS=17, in FTDNA project i2a there is only one DYS557=17 among Norths comparing to all others which are 16. I check y search too and there is a few DYS557=17 among Norths but vast majority is 16. Is there a possibility that mutation happened after separation of Norths and Souths simultaneusly in both populations? I am not claiming that all YUgoslav Dinaric South haplotypes belong to this cluster (because it doesn't, other South haplotypes in ex Yugoslavia are DYS=16 or lower), but only one part of it. Simo 25. јануар 2012. 21.18, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> је написао/ла: > Then again, when I go to Ysearch, the 557=17 Dinarics come mainly from > Poland, and perhaps include more 448 = 20 than 448 = 19 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 12:48 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I2a1b1 Dinaric, anything new? > > I agree that DYS557=17 appears to have a correlation with Balkans. Does > 557 > =17 correlate with DYs448 = 19? Or how about DYS449 correlation? > > Ken > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: simo > Recently I spent some time by observing > haplotypes, mostly 67 markers tested, trying to find some clearly South > Slavic cluster, cluster which could be derived after Slavs setlled on > Balkan in 6 and 7th century. On the first sight there is no any sign of > teritorial clustering, but I believe there is one cluster which could be > born in Herzegovina region (all families are from that area) within the > existing I2a1b1 Dinaric South. Defining marker for this cluster could be > DYS 557 with the value 17, while all remaining Dinaric South have value 16 > or lower on that marker. I used one of internet utilities for TMRCA for > particular group and time to most recent ancestor was about 1300-1400 years > ago (or 6 to 7 century AD) time when Slavs migrated on Balkan. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Simo, Thanks for your efforts to find new clusters in Dinaric. Anything we can find is useful. But maybe we will have to wait for someone to start something like a "1000 Genomes of Russia" project to make real progress. (The 1000 Genomes project does not include any samples from Central or Eastern Europe unfortunately, and only 1 Dinaric person has been included in the project so far, he was from Finland). Earlier this month another WTY was ordered, approved, and paid for by a Dinaric-N person with ancestry from Poland. Maybe he will get lucky and find something. Looking at the colorized results table might be useful in finding clusters. http://www.familytreedna.com/public/I2aHapGroup/default.aspx?section=ycolorized Right now the FTDNA I2a Project has placed all the Dinaric and Disles 111 marker results at the top of the page, along with 111 markers from the other subclades of I-P37.2. Maybe you or someone else can find some useful patterns. As far as I can tell, there is only one Dinaric-S person with 111 markers and DYS557=17. Bernie