-----Original Message----- From: Terry I've been looking at Z382 and the other SNPs for haplogroup I1. In the FTDNA I1 Project, there are still only five people that have taken the Z382 test (as of 12 March 2012). Two of them were Z382+ (positive), with one listed under the heading "AS 3 (Z59+, Z58+)", while the other Z382+ person is listed under "Z59+ (Z58+, Z59+, but not AS 3 or AS 13)". Now, whatever the definition is of your "robust clade AS3", I can't see why on the basis of those results you can say much about Z382+ and any association with STR values at this stage. [[Two of two from AS3 clade are L382+. There are no other Z382+ yet from outside of AS3, though I expect there will eventually be. The I1xL22 generics are showing up on all the new branch lines defined by the z snps, as they probably should in a rapidly expanding population. Others do the FTDNA Project classifying, not me. Robust clade means large count of members. My database has 156 haplotypes for clade AS3, and I have not updated my searches in quite a while. For those who think they are in AS3 based on first 67 markers, the 68-111 markers give four more special STR values --- 461 = 11, 441 = 15, 714 = 25, 715 = 25. In the first 67 markers the identifying marker values are 458 = 14, 447 = 24, 449 = 30, and 464 = 12,15,16,16. But AS3 seems older than most I1xL22 clades so has significant variance (mutations) in its haplotype population. KN]]

I'm AS3 458=14, 447=24, 449=30, and 464= 12 16 17 17 instead of 12 15 16 16   Would I be of assistance if I ordered the Z382 test?  I've ordered nothing beyond my 37 markers but a match has done through 67 so I'm riding on his coat tails.   Rich Edwards kit 117199 ________________________________ From: Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:37 AM Subject: [yDNAhgI] Z382 -----Original Message----- From: Terry I've been looking at Z382 and the other SNPs for haplogroup I1. In the FTDNA I1 Project, there are still only five people that have taken the Z382 test (as of 12 March 2012). Two of them were Z382+ (positive), with one listed under the heading "AS 3 (Z59+, Z58+)", while the other Z382+ person is listed under "Z59+ (Z58+, Z59+, but not AS 3 or AS 13)". Now, whatever the definition is of your "robust clade AS3", I can't see why on the basis of those results you can say much about Z382+ and any association with STR values at this stage. [[Two of two from AS3 clade are L382+.  There are no other Z382+ yet from outside of AS3, though I expect there will eventually be.  The I1xL22 generics are showing up on all the new branch lines defined by the z snps, as they probably should in a rapidly expanding population.  Others do the FTDNA Project classifying, not me.  Robust clade means large count of members. My database has 156 haplotypes for clade AS3, and I have not updated my searches in quite a while.  For those who think they are in AS3 based on first 67 markers, the 68-111 markers give four more special STR values --- 461 = 11, 441 = 15, 714 = 25, 715 = 25.  In the first 67 markers the identifying marker values are 458 = 14, 447 = 24, 449 = 30, and 464 = 12,15,16,16.  But AS3 seems older than most I1xL22 clades so has significant variance (mutations) in its haplotype population. KN]] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ken. So you have a sample size of 2 (two), and from that you are drawing conclusion for all? Also, you are saying that the FTDNA I1 Project group administrators are classifying one of those cases incorrectly. Where/how did they go wrong? Is it a subjective classification, or are they applying different rules to you? Terry On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Terry > > I've been looking at Z382 and the other SNPs for haplogroup I1. > > In the FTDNA I1 Project, there are still only five people that have taken > the Z382 test (as of 12 March 2012). Two of them were Z382+ (positive), > with one listed under the heading "AS 3 (Z59+, Z58+)", while the other > Z382+ person is listed under "Z59+ (Z58+, Z59+, but not AS 3 or AS 13)". > > Now, whatever the definition is of your "robust clade AS3", I can't see why > on the basis of those results you can say much about Z382+ and any > association with STR values at this stage. > > [[Two of two from AS3 clade are L382+. There are no other Z382+ yet from > outside of AS3, though I expect there will eventually be. The I1xL22 > generics are showing up on all the new branch lines defined by the z snps, > as they probably should in a rapidly expanding population. Others do the > FTDNA Project classifying, not me. Robust clade means large count of > members. My database has 156 haplotypes for clade AS3, and I have not > updated my searches in quite a while. For those who think they are in AS3 > based on first 67 markers, the 68-111 markers give four more special STR > values --- 461 = 11, 441 = 15, 714 = 25, 715 = 25. In the first 67 markers > the identifying marker values are 458 = 14, 447 = 24, 449 = 30, and 464 = > 12,15,16,16. But AS3 seems older than most I1xL22 clades so has > significant > variance (mutations) in its haplotype population. KN]] > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >