<< This could be linked to Suebi, as the share of I1 is significantly increased in the area of the Suebi expansion in Julius Caesar times - along the Rhine valley up to Switzerland.>> Marek, "the area of the Suebi expansion in Julius Caesar times" you refer to, regarding an early and by population numerously not that important settlement is the same area the Suebo-Alemannic final and large settlement took place about 300 years later and the area where this Suebian population still is living today. The Alemannic "tribes" always were part of the geographicly between lower river Elbe and what is Slovakia currently largely distributed and numerous Suebian federation, with tribes like the Semnoni, Warni, Langobardi, Hermunduri, Quadi, Marcomanni, and some more tribes. All of them belonged to the Elbe Germanics, as a synonym to the Suebi and their federation. "Alemanni" means "all men", not a tribe but rather large groups of Suebian warriors from different Suebian tribes in order to warfare against the Roman empire. As of about the year 230 the Alemannic storm ran permanently and widely against the borders (the Roman "limes") of the Roman Empire in current central, southern and southwestern Germany. The Romans retreated and the Suebo-Alemannic tribes settled and expanded finally largely between the river Neckar and upstream along river Rhine, in the Alsace (an area name which means "Seats of the Alemans"), and later in Switzerland and in western Austria. So rather this later, large and final settling is the reason why you can find a significant percentage of hg I1 in these areas. And besides this, it also can mean why I myself bear the I1 hg for possibly being descendant of Suebian ancestors, settling in the Thuringian area - at least being descendant from the I1 founder in northern Germany and the lower Elbe basin especially ca. 8000 years ago, thousands of years before Germanic tribes found their Pre-Germanic origin by melting Scandinavian and northern German Old Europeans and immigrating Indoeuropeans. << So Suebi could have a significant share of I1.>> Possibly yes, see above. Best regards. Jürgen -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) From: Marek Skarbek Kozietulski <msskarbek@gmail.com> To: familienarchiv@genealogie-fritsche.de, y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Date: Samstag, 10. März 2012 03:53:38 > < Galicia and the north of Portugal not only is the area on the Iberian > peninsula having the highest density of placenames of Germanic (only > Suebian) origin but also shows a focused significant higher hg I level than > the rest of Iberia!> > Yes, you are right that in this North-Western corner of Galicia the share of > I1 is a little higher. This could be linked to Suebi, as the share of I1 is > significantly increased in the area of the Suebi expansion in Julius Caesar > times - along the Rhine valley up to Switzerland. So Suebi could have a > significant share of I1. > Best, > Marek Skarbek Kozietulski

Jürgen, Generally, I agree with the thesis that Suebi were dominated genetically by the I1. I am not sure which wave of Suebi attacking Europe from North between times of Caesar and 570 AC was the most numerous, and how large areas were embraced by them. On my map http://medievalgenealogy.republika.pl/normans_ce_distri_map.htm I see a very high density of I1 along the Rhine valley up to Switzerland. I would link this density with the Suebi expansion. Other areas which you have mentioned as connected to Suebi are not so I1 intense. North-Eastern Thuringia and Upper Saxony, where you are from, have increased presence of I1, but this could be also linked to the Saxon conquest of Elb-Slavs (even to the well known ethnical cleansings performed by Markgraf Geron in the Xth century). All these waves of Scandinavian tribes were driven by periodic famines, and probably the attacks of Suebi, Goths, Vandals were caused by the same famines (were synchronic). Suebi started their attacks from the area of today Denmark and South-Western part of Scania, ie. areas where even today I1 has a high share. So it is logical that I1 was probably well represented among them. Goths started more in the North-Eastern part of Scania and in Gotland, where R1b has a high share. So I would expect them to be carriers more of R1b than I1. The relatively high share of R1b and low of I1 in Poland, which was on the route of Goths, can probably be linked to Goths. It is known, that Goths have spent several generations on the territories of the today Poland. Probably, certain part of moving Goth remained on the territory of today Poland. There are three regions in Poland where population is partly linked ethnically to Goth (the most significant is Kociewie South of Gdansk/Danzig, this names means something like Goths-Land). Nevertheless, I think that also among Goths could be a certain share of I1, which has to be considered. The I1 case mentioned by Aaron Casillas (Norway-Poland-Portugal) is probably a good example. Also the Gottschee region of Slovenia, where I1 has an increased share, gives something to think about. Best, Marek -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dnag-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Familienarchiv Fritsche + Saldarriaga Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 12:51 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Suebo-Alemannic population and hg I1 in central Europe (was: Suebi in Galicia and Portugal) << This could be linked to Suebi, as the share of I1 is significantly increased in the area of the Suebi expansion in Julius Caesar times - along the Rhine valley up to Switzerland.>> Marek, "the area of the Suebi expansion in Julius Caesar times" you refer to, regarding an early and by population numerously not that important settlement is the same area the Suebo-Alemannic final and large settlement took place about 300 years later and the area where this Suebian population still is living today. The Alemannic "tribes" always were part of the geographicly between lower river Elbe and what is Slovakia currently largely distributed and numerous Suebian federation, with tribes like the Semnoni, Warni, Langobardi, Hermunduri, Quadi, Marcomanni, and some more tribes. All of them belonged to the Elbe Germanics, as a synonym to the Suebi and their federation. "Alemanni" means "all men", not a tribe but rather large groups of Suebian warriors from different Suebian tribes in order to warfare against the Roman empire. As of about the year 230 the Alemannic storm ran permanently and widely against the borders (the Roman "limes") of the Roman Empire in current central, southern and southwestern Germany. The Romans retreated and the Suebo-Alemannic tribes settled and expanded finally largely between the river Neckar and upstream along river Rhine, in the Alsace (an area name which means "Seats of the Alemans"), and later in Switzerland and in western Austria. So rather this later, large and final settling is the reason why you can find a significant percentage of hg I1 in these areas. And besides this, it also can mean why I myself bear the I1 hg for possibly being descendant of Suebian ancestors, settling in the Thuringian area - at least being descendant from the I1 founder in northern Germany and the lower Elbe basin especially ca. 8000 years ago, thousands of years before Germanic tribes found their Pre-Germanic origin by melting Scandinavian and northern German Old Europeans and immigrating Indoeuropeans. << So Suebi could have a significant share of I1.>> Possibly yes, see above. Best regards. Jürgen -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) From: Marek Skarbek Kozietulski <msskarbek@gmail.com> To: familienarchiv@genealogie-fritsche.de, y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Date: Samstag, 10. März 2012 03:53:38 > < Galicia and the north of Portugal not only is the area on the > Iberian peninsula having the highest density of placenames of Germanic > (only > Suebian) origin but also shows a focused significant higher hg I level > than the rest of Iberia!> Yes, you are right that in this > North-Western corner of Galicia the share of > I1 is a little higher. This could be linked to Suebi, as the share of > I1 is significantly increased in the area of the Suebi expansion in > Julius Caesar times - along the Rhine valley up to Switzerland. So > Suebi could have a significant share of I1. > Best, > Marek Skarbek Kozietulski ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4861 - Release Date: 03/09/12