As we pile up more and more Z186+ looking more and more like almost phyloequivalent to L801+, a very large chasm in old M223* has shown up in the 68-111 marker extensions to M223+ haplotypes. It suggests where to focus testing on Z186+ to make it a possibly more interesting snp. L801+ Z186+ is almost identical to the DYS532 = 9 young population from Continental1 and Continental2. There are a few borderline haplotypes who should be tested for Z186+: Rasey, Macaulay, Abbot, Vannoy, Hausman. Their DYS532 values have strayed upward to 10 and 11. But they keep the DYS717 = 16 and DYS485 = 13 values of the L801+ Z186+ horde found so far. But there is a fascinating population of “old” types of Continental haplotypes which find their DYS717 values shot up to 19 repeats; and their DYS485 = 14. These haplotypes are L801-; some of them are L623+ but some are L623- and still classified as M223* Some come from clades in the past called M223-X which always showed ambivalence as to whether closer to Continental or Roots. Surnames of this population include: Hollier Bartels Hofstee Spearing Valiaminov Rawlings Morgan Most of the above are found in tight clusters; the rest of said clusters will probably follow their snp outcomes. So we have a jump of 3 repeats on DYS717, separating the above from “young” L801+ Z186+ people! Who else has 19 at DYS717 and 14 at DYS485 as these oddies do? Standard Roots M223+, and M284+ P78+ division of M223+ is closer to this latter sector as well, having 18 at DYS717 and 14 at DYS485. It is the old breakup of M223+ that we do not yet understand as well as we should. I think Z186+ should be focused in coming orders on the maverick and borderline populations I have mentioned above. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained.

Z186 is already pending for the RASEY (Batch 454, results expected 4/23). Diana > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 3:04 PM > > As we pile up more and more Z186+ looking more and more like almost > phyloequivalent to L801+, a very large chasm in old M223* has shown > up in the 68-111 marker extensions to M223+ haplotypes. > > It suggests where to focus testing on Z186+ to make it a possibly > more interesting snp. > > L801+ Z186+ is almost identical to the DYS532 = 9 young population > from Continental1 and Continental2. There are a few borderline > haplotypes who should be tested for Z186+: > > Rasey, > Macaulay, > Abbot, > Vannoy, > Hausman. > > Their DYS532 values have strayed upward to 10 and 11. But they > keep the DYS717 = 16 and DYS485 = 13 values of the L801+ Z186+ horde > found so far. <snp>