Hello, Mark and Aaron There are very few accounts of the Reconquista. Still, many of the accounts that do exist are vague/conflicting and only follow specific noblemen, some of whom are known to have returned to Normandy. There are no records about the Norman armies they brought into Iberia with them. Some social connections established during the Reconquista are known to have lasted and specific lines have been traced. That is the case of the Mariz line, descended from Robert de Montgommery, a son of Roger I de Montgommery (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Ier_de_Montgommery), whose other son Roger II de Montgommery was William the Conqueror's counselor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_de_Montgomerie,_1st_Earl_of_Shrewsbury). In Iberia, Montgommery became "Mongo Mariz", then simply Mariz. Afonso Nunes de Mariz, a direct male descendant of Robert de Montgommery, fled to Portugal from Castile after he sided with Castilian prince Peter against Henry I, who ended up becoming king: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_I_of_Castile . In Portugal, Afonso Nunes de Mariz established himself in Barcelos, Braga, where he founded the town of Mariz. Documented examples like this are very rare. But they point to how lesser-known lines may have been assimilated into the Iberian population. Aaron Torres Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) Saturday, March 10, 2012 3:30 PM From: "Aaron Casillas" <actapatio2007@yahoo.com> To: "y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com" <y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com> Hi Mark P   I've mentioned it before, there were several thousands who helped and colonial/raiding settlements along the coasts of Portugual (for 250years),  but without hard scientific data it's been difficult to spot the very exact signatures.   One thing that I see with Terry's data is migration patterns, perhaps it could be organized visually, like connecting the dots?  (or maybe it's not that simple). ________________________________ From: Mark Pallette <mpallette@gmail.com> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22)   Aaron, It is interesting that no one has mentioned the Reconquista and the Normans that helped push the Moors off of the Iberian Peninsula.  This is another wave of I1 Haplotypes that influenced the genetic makeup of Portugal and Galicia.  Maybe Marek, who is a Norman expert, could comment on this topic. Mark Pallette

Aaron, Thank you for your very informative and interesting response to my post. Probably, sometime over the next decade, we will sort all of this out as DNA testing becomes more affordable and widespread. Best, Mark On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Aaron Salles Torres <sallfertorr@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hello, Mark and Aaron > > There are very few accounts of the Reconquista. Still, many of the accounts that do exist are vague/conflicting and only follow specific noblemen, some of whom are known to have returned to Normandy. There are no records about the Norman armies they brought into Iberia with them. > > Some social connections established >  during the Reconquista are known to have lasted and specific lines have been traced. That is the case of the Mariz line, descended from Robert de Montgommery, a son >                                of Roger I de Montgommery >                                (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Ier_de_Montgommery), whose other son Roger II de Montgommery was William the Conqueror's counselor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_de_Montgomerie,_1st_Earl_of_Shrewsbury). In Iberia, Montgommery became "Mongo Mariz", then simply Mariz. Afonso Nunes de Mariz, a direct male descendant of Robert de Montgommery, fled to Portugal from Castile after he sided with >                                Castilian prince Peter against Henry I, who >                                ended up becoming king: >                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_I_of_Castile >                                . In Portugal, Afonso Nunes de Mariz established himself in Barcelos, Braga, where he founded the town of Mariz. > > Documented examples like this are very rare. But they point to how lesser-known lines may have been assimilated into the Iberian population. > > Aaron Torres > > > Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) > Saturday, March 10, 2012 3:30 PM > From: > "Aaron Casillas" <actapatio2007@yahoo.com> > To: > "y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com" <y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com> > Hi Mark P > > I've mentioned it before, there were several thousands who helped and colonial/raiding settlements along the coasts of Portugual (for 250years),  but without hard scientific data it's >  been difficult to spot the very exact signatures. > > One thing that I see with Terry's data is migration patterns, perhaps it could be organized visually, like connecting the dots?  (or maybe it's not that simple). > > > ________________________________ > From: Mark Pallette <mpallette@gmail.com> > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 12:30 PM > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) > > Aaron, > > It is interesting that no one has mentioned the Reconquista and the > Normans that helped push the Moors off of the Iberian > Peninsula.  This is another wave of I1 Haplotypes that influenced the > genetic makeup of Portugal and Galicia.  Maybe Marek, who is a Norman > expert, could comment on this topic. > > Mark Pallette > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks!   The only information I have found are accounts of English/German/Frisian Crusaders during the Reconquest.   http://books.google.com/books?id=wsMDoNjs3NsC&lpg=PA125&dq=Frisian%20Crusaders%20Lisbon&pg=PA125#v=onepage&q=Frisian%20Crusaders%20Lisbon&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=yA3p6v3UxyIC&lpg=PA336&dq=Frisian%20Lisbon&pg=PA336#v=onepage&q=Frisian%20Lisbon&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=uWa5X5qa9bAC&lpg=PA70&dq=Frisian%20Spain&pg=PA70#v=onepage&q&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=xPrT3kLn7w4C&lpg=PA152&dq=Frisian%20Spain&pg=PA152#v=onepage&q=Frisian%20Spain&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=uWa5X5qa9bAC&lpg=PA69&dq=Frisian%20English%20Lisbon&pg=PA70#v=onepage&q=Frisian%20English%20Lisbon&f=false   and Robert Ferguson's book chapter "When Allah met Odin"   Viking colony in Portugual, very interesting they still use a form of Runes. http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%B3voa_de_Varzim   And in the etymology of many names and words...   Probably one of the more important words in modern Spanish is the word for Brother..."Hermano" which is a latinized word for "Germano."   ________________________________ From: Aaron Salles Torres <sallfertorr@yahoo.com> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) Hello, Mark and Aaron There are very few accounts of the Reconquista. Still, many of the accounts that do exist are vague/conflicting and only follow specific noblemen, some of whom are known to have returned to Normandy. There are no records about the Norman armies they brought into Iberia with them. Some social connections established during the Reconquista are known to have lasted and specific lines have been traced. That is the case of the Mariz line, descended from Robert de Montgommery, a son                                 of Roger I de Montgommery                                 (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Ier_de_Montgommery), whose other son Roger II de Montgommery was William the Conqueror's counselor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_de_Montgomerie,_1st_Earl_of_Shrewsbury). In Iberia, Montgommery became "Mongo Mariz", then simply Mariz. Afonso Nunes de Mariz, a direct male descendant of Robert de Montgommery, fled to Portugal from Castile after he sided with                                 Castilian prince Peter against Henry I, who                                 ended up becoming king:                                 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_I_of_Castile                                 . In Portugal, Afonso Nunes de Mariz established himself in Barcelos, Braga, where he founded the town of Mariz. Documented examples like this are very rare. But they point to how lesser-known lines may have been assimilated into the Iberian population. Aaron Torres Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) Saturday, March 10, 2012 3:30 PM From: "Aaron Casillas" <actapatio2007@yahoo.com> To: "y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com" <y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com> Hi Mark P   I've mentioned it before, there were several thousands who helped and colonial/raiding settlements along the coasts of Portugual (for 250years),  but without hard scientific data it's been difficult to spot the very exact signatures.   One thing that I see with Terry's data is migration patterns, perhaps it could be organized visually, like connecting the dots?  (or maybe it's not that simple). ________________________________ From: Mark Pallette <mpallette@gmail.com> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22)   Aaron, It is interesting that no one has mentioned the Reconquista and the Normans that helped push the Moors off of the Iberian Peninsula.  This is another wave of I1 Haplotypes that influenced the genetic makeup of Portugal and Galicia.  Maybe Marek, who is a Norman expert, could comment on this topic. Mark Pallette ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

< There are very few accounts of the Reconquista. Still, many of the accounts that do exist are vague/conflicting and only follow specific noblemen, some of whom are known to have returned to Normandy. There are no records about the Norman armies they brought into Iberia with them. > I agree with this view. I think that significant changes of haplotypic representation in a given territory happened only if entire tribes moved in this territory, either through at least partial ethnical cleansings, or this territory was already empted. This happened often in times of all these European migrations during the 1. Millennium AC (Goths, vandals, Alans, Huns etc.). The times of Viking or Norman conquests were more about robbery, and grants of estates for leaders of these conquests, less about ethnical cleansings. Marek Skarbek Kozietulski -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Salles Torres Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 2:50 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) Hello, Mark and Aaron There are very few accounts of the Reconquista. Still, many of the accounts that do exist are vague/conflicting and only follow specific noblemen, some of whom are known to have returned to Normandy. There are no records about the Norman armies they brought into Iberia with them. Some social connections established during the Reconquista are known to have lasted and specific lines have been traced. That is the case of the Mariz line, descended from Robert de Montgommery, a son of Roger I de Montgommery (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Ier_de_Montgommery), whose other son Roger II de Montgommery was William the Conqueror's counselor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_de_Montgomerie,_1st_Earl_of_Shrewsbury). In Iberia, Montgommery became "Mongo Mariz", then simply Mariz. Afonso Nunes de Mariz, a direct male descendant of Robert de Montgommery, fled to Portugal from Castile after he sided with Castilian prince Peter against Henry I, who ended up becoming king: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_I_of_Castile . In Portugal, Afonso Nunes de Mariz established himself in Barcelos, Braga, where he founded the town of Mariz. Documented examples like this are very rare. But they point to how lesser-known lines may have been assimilated into the Iberian population. Aaron Torres Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22) Saturday, March 10, 2012 3:30 PM From: "Aaron Casillas" <actapatio2007@yahoo.com> To: "y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com" <y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com> Hi Mark P   I've mentioned it before, there were several thousands who helped and colonial/raiding settlements along the coasts of Portugual (for 250years),  but without hard scientific data it's been difficult to spot the very exact signatures.   One thing that I see with Terry's data is migration patterns, perhaps it could be organized visually, like connecting the dots?  (or maybe it's not that simple). ________________________________ From: Mark Pallette <mpallette@gmail.com> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Suebi in Galicia and Portugal (was: New I1-Iber clade in I1xL22)   Aaron, It is interesting that no one has mentioned the Reconquista and the Normans that helped push the Moors off of the Iberian Peninsula.  This is another wave of I1 Haplotypes that influenced the genetic makeup of Portugal and Galicia.  Maybe Marek, who is a Norman expert, could comment on this topic. Mark Pallette ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4861 - Release Date: 03/09/12