In the I1 and I1L22 projects I can count 7 L813+ (incl. the WTY) and 12 L813-(incl. 3 L22- and 1 P109+). The L813+´s has a interesting variation at 385: 14-14, 14-15, 14-16 and 15-15 and at 464: 11-14-14-16, 12-14-14-16 and 11-14-15-16. All have 29 or 30 at 449. Personally I think that 8 L22* is to small a sample size for L22* not to test L813. It would be quite a coincidence if the STR mutation and the SNP mutation occurred in the same person. Either are some N L813+ or some uN L813-. Ole -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] På vegne af Kenneth Nordtvedt Sendt: 20. marts 2012 05:16 Til: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Emne: Re: [yDNAhgI] Haplogroup I1d (L22+) From: Terry Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 10:02 PM For L300+ and L813+ the sample size is currently too small. [[4 of 4 L813+ falling within a large and geographically as well as STR defined clade uN2, and never an L813- among the many falling within it as far as I know of, and never an L813+ falling outside, gives very good odds to reach a working conclusion about relationship between L813+ and uN2. KN ]] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

-----Original Message----- From: Ole Selmer In the I1 and I1L22 projects I can count 7 L813+ (incl. the WTY) and 12 L813-(incl. 3 L22- and 1 P109+). Personally I think that 8 L22* is to small a sample size for L22* not to test L813. It would be quite a coincidence if the STR mutation and the SNP mutation occurred in the same person. Either are some N L813+ or some uN L813-. Ole [[ The str and snp mutations you talk about need not have happened in same person, and most very likely did not. It is the long ancestral branch line leading to clade MRCA which contains the L813 anywhere along its length, and over that same ancestral branch line on which the founder uN2 haplotype had a chance to mutate away from standard L22+, and then slowly mutate apart among its post-MRCA population up until today. Most very distinct clades with thousands of years age had a very barren ancestral branch line leading further back into the past. KN ]] - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See "Tree for I1" and "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net showing my working tree for YDNA haplogroup I. These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained.