Thank you Mr. West for testing Z138 and confirming the derived status for membership in I1-ESc-13 clade. That now makes 5 such snp confirmations for the clade. I resend my description of this new clade I1-ESc-13, and it is down below. Sadly, a number of other probable members of this clade who I contacted neither ordered upgrades to 67 and 111 markers, nor ordered Z138 and.or Z139 snps. Sometimes the hobby gets very frustrating. As you can see below the clade membership is shaky if one depends on only the first 37 STRs. That's why STR and/or SNP upgrades were suggested for potential members of this clade whose world hotspot is Scotland. I have a list of more than 30 potential or probable members of the clade. Many of them need further testing to confirm membership or rule it out. Mr. West's 37 marker haplotype by itself would have never caught my eye. But his 67 and then 111 marker haplotype pointed strongly toward his membership, and now his Z138 result further confirms. Confession is in order: My Norwegian haplotype is in this clade; so that triggers my pleadings for more testing by all the potential and probable members of I1-ESc-13 In last couple days I have found a robust clade of mainly Scot haplotypes of I1xL22. Here’s the special identifying strs or inferred founding values. Remember: mutations happen; all str identifiers need not be matched to belong to clade. I am nicknaming this clade I1-ESc-13. It has 15 hard core members plus 14 possibles. Several hard core members already confirmed Z138+ Z139+ Markers 1-37 DYS385 = 13/15 norm 13/14 is also present DYS449 = 30 norm 28 DYS464 = 12,14,14,16 norm 12,14,15,16 also present in significant number DYS456 = 15 norm 14 Markers 38-67 Important identifier DYS487 = 13 norm 12 Markers 68-111 DYS710 = 31 DYS552 = 26 norm 25 DYS635 = 20 norm 21/22 DYS497 = 15 norm 14 If you may be in this clade and have only 37 markers, I urge upgrading to 67 or 111 markers. Z138+ Z139+ carry only a small fraction of I1xL22, especially other than of AS2 clade. So Z138 and/or Z139 tests are a relatively inexpensive way to gain info on whether one is of this clade or not. Clade seems about 2100 years old. Geographically it looks perhaps lowland, east coast Scotland Other than a Norwegian member, no continental representatives have been found! Also, I1-AS10 folks might test for Z138+, Z139+ There is some evidence that haplotypes with DYS487 in I1xL22 will often be derived for these new snps. Ken ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ken, what percent of Scottish lowlands men are I1? Sent from my iPhone On Mar 10, 2012, at 1:29 PM, "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> wrote: > Thank you Mr. West for testing Z138 and confirming the derived status for > membership in I1-ESc-13 clade. That now makes 5 such snp confirmations for > the clade. > > I resend my description of this new clade I1-ESc-13, and it is down below. > > Sadly, a number of other probable members of this clade who I contacted > neither ordered upgrades to 67 and 111 markers, nor ordered Z138 and.or Z139 > snps. Sometimes the hobby gets very frustrating. > > As you can see below the clade membership is shaky if one depends on only > the first 37 STRs. That's why STR and/or SNP upgrades were suggested for > potential members of this clade whose world hotspot is Scotland. > > I have a list of more than 30 potential or probable members of the clade. > Many of them need further testing to confirm membership or rule it out. Mr. > West's 37 marker haplotype by itself would have never caught my eye. > But his 67 and then 111 marker haplotype pointed strongly toward his > membership, and now his Z138 result further confirms. > > Confession is in order: My Norwegian haplotype is in this clade; so that > triggers my pleadings for more testing by all the potential and probable > members of I1-ESc-13 > > > > > > > > In last couple days I have found a robust clade of mainly Scot haplotypes of > I1xL22. > > Here’s the special identifying strs or inferred founding values. > Remember: mutations happen; all str identifiers need not be matched to > belong to clade. > > I am nicknaming this clade I1-ESc-13. It has 15 hard core members plus 14 > possibles. > Several hard core members already confirmed Z138+ Z139+ > > Markers 1-37 > DYS385 = 13/15 norm 13/14 is also present > DYS449 = 30 norm 28 > DYS464 = 12,14,14,16 norm 12,14,15,16 also present in significant number > DYS456 = 15 norm 14 > > Markers 38-67 > Important identifier DYS487 = 13 norm 12 > > Markers 68-111 > DYS710 = 31 > DYS552 = 26 norm 25 > DYS635 = 20 norm 21/22 > DYS497 = 15 norm 14 > > If you may be in this clade and have only 37 markers, I urge upgrading to 67 > or 111 markers. > > Z138+ Z139+ carry only a small fraction of I1xL22, especially other than of > AS2 clade. > > So Z138 and/or Z139 tests are a relatively inexpensive way to gain info on > whether one is of this clade or not. > > Clade seems about 2100 years old. Geographically it looks perhaps lowland, > east coast Scotland > Other than a Norwegian member, no continental representatives have been > found! > > Also, I1-AS10 folks might test for Z138+, Z139+ There is some evidence that > haplotypes with DYS487 in I1xL22 will often be derived for these new snps. > > Ken > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I don't know, but I believe substantially higher than I1 percentage in highlands. And I suspect lowland Scotland will be more I1xL22 and highlands will be more I1 L22+. -----Original Message----- From: John M Rhodes Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 12:31 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New I1-ESc-13 clade and Z138/139 Ken, what percent of Scottish lowlands men are I1? Sent from my iPhone On Mar 10, 2012, at 1:29 PM, "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> wrote: > Thank you Mr. West for testing Z138 and confirming the derived status for > membership in I1-ESc-13 clade. That now makes 5 such snp confirmations > for > the clade. > > I resend my description of this new clade I1-ESc-13, and it is down below. > > Sadly, a number of other probable members of this clade who I contacted > neither ordered upgrades to 67 and 111 markers, nor ordered Z138 and.or > Z139 > snps. Sometimes the hobby gets very frustrating. > > As you can see below the clade membership is shaky if one depends on only > the first 37 STRs. That's why STR and/or SNP upgrades were suggested for > potential members of this clade whose world hotspot is Scotland. > > I have a list of more than 30 potential or probable members of the clade. > Many of them need further testing to confirm membership or rule it out. > Mr. > West's 37 marker haplotype by itself would have never caught my eye. > But his 67 and then 111 marker haplotype pointed strongly toward his > membership, and now his Z138 result further confirms. > > Confession is in order: My Norwegian haplotype is in this clade; so that > triggers my pleadings for more testing by all the potential and probable > members of I1-ESc-13 > > > > > > > > In last couple days I have found a robust clade of mainly Scot haplotypes > of > I1xL22. > > Here’s the special identifying strs or inferred founding values. > Remember: mutations happen; all str identifiers need not be matched to > belong to clade. > > I am nicknaming this clade I1-ESc-13. It has 15 hard core members plus 14 > possibles. > Several hard core members already confirmed Z138+ Z139+ > > Markers 1-37 > DYS385 = 13/15 norm 13/14 is also present > DYS449 = 30 norm 28 > DYS464 = 12,14,14,16 norm 12,14,15,16 also present in significant number > DYS456 = 15 norm 14 > > Markers 38-67 > Important identifier DYS487 = 13 norm 12 > > Markers 68-111 > DYS710 = 31 > DYS552 = 26 norm 25 > DYS635 = 20 norm 21/22 > DYS497 = 15 norm 14 > > If you may be in this clade and have only 37 markers, I urge upgrading to > 67 > or 111 markers. > > Z138+ Z139+ carry only a small fraction of I1xL22, especially other than > of > AS2 clade. > > So Z138 and/or Z139 tests are a relatively inexpensive way to gain info on > whether one is of this clade or not. > > Clade seems about 2100 years old. Geographically it looks perhaps > lowland, > east coast Scotland > Other than a Norwegian member, no continental representatives have been > found! > > Also, I1-AS10 folks might test for Z138+, Z139+ There is some evidence > that > haplotypes with DYS487 in I1xL22 will often be derived for these new snps. > > Ken > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GENEALOGY-DNA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message