In anticipation that the snp orders --- L623 and L147 --- on kit 210543 will have their results reported out any year now, I have begun the process of putting the clades of L623+ L147+ Continental-2c into the “Tree for M223 Z161+” Initially there are three, Cont-2c11, Cont-2c12, and Cont-2c13 (based on everyone’s beloved DYS388 STR which has been around for a decade or so). But L623+ L147+ haplotype population is so complex, I am sure more clades could be developed if more haplotypes expanded to 67 and 111 markers. This three part division is only a beginning. But we have a start in getting a sense for how long ago this haplogroup began to branch out. kit 210543 will form a very ancient new branch in this sector of the tree, I believe. The big question is whether it will be + + or - - or + – for the new snps? It could go any of those three ways with comparable probability. There are lots of Continental-2c haplotypes. The firstgood clue you belong would be a 14 repeats for DYS19. Second clue is 20/21 or 21/21 at YCAIIa,b. See “The M223 modalities” for all identifying STR characteristics. Tomorrow is last day of their sale in price for expansion of haplotypes to 67 or 111 markers. I encourage Continental-2c clade to expand so we can more fully construct the subclade structure for this part of the tree. - - - - Kenneth Nordtvedt See: "Tree for I1xL22xZ58" "Tree for I1 Z58+" "Tree for I1d L22+" "Tree for M223 x Z161" "Tree for M223+ Z161+" "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" "The I1 modalities" "The M223+ Modalities" at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net These files are periodically updated as new information is obtained.