Hello Ryan, Thanks for your posting and you raise some valid questions. However, I'm not sure if you follow any of the discussions on the Project's Yahoogroups email list or our Facebook page. If not, then you have been missing out. The Continental 1 and Continental 2a (CTS6433+) sectors of the I-M223 Project are the largest sectors in the Project. Quite a few of the members did Geno 2.0 when that was released and it was from Geno 2.0 that CTS6433 was identified. This SNP linked Cont 1 (Z78+) and Cont2a (Z78-). Other new SNPs were revealed from Geno 2.0 and over the past 1-2 years we have been trying to place these SNPs into the Haplogroup I tree. Sometimes this can only be done through individual SNP testing. In Cont 1 for example we have been able to show that Z171 is upstream of Z185, that Z185 is upstream of Z180, that Z180 is upstream of L1198 which in turn is upstream of Z166. Some of these had been thought to be phyloequivalent and only though testing, sometime selective testing, have this been disproved. We now need to do the same with Z78 and Z171. Similarly for Cont2a, new SNPs found in the Geno 2.0 results of one or two testers need to be proved derived for others and shown ancestral for neighbouring clades. PF3292 and CTS7010 were found derived in one person, Winter, who did Geno 2.0. Only with the release of BritainsDNA's Chromo2 results earlier this year, was a second though anonymous, person found to be PF3292+ but they were CTS7010-. So this revealed that CTS7010 was either downstream of PF3292 or a misread by Geno 2.0. We now have both available for order at FTDNA but people should test PF3292 first. It is one of the SNPs included on the new FTDNA 2014 Haplotree. Please note, that six other SNPs placed as downstream of M223 in the new tree are all WRONG. We have asked they be removed. Looking at the Project's Y-DNA colorized results spreadsheet will show you what Winter's haplotype looks like. Checking the SNP page, one can see who has already tested for PF3292 and been found ancestral. CTS5332 was found in the Geno 2.0 results for two testers that joined the Project not too long ago. We had them test for or expand their STR markers and we have asked FTDNA to add CTS5332 to the order list. Again looking at the Project's spreadsheet you can see their haplotypes. CTS661 was another SNP identified through Geno 2.0. It has been found to be the same SNP as L1272. Various members identified by their haplotype tested for L1272 and were found derived. Recently CTS661 was added to the FTDNA order list. A couple of members have tested for this to show results are same as for L1272. Two of these CTS661+/L1272+ members tested with Big Y and it has confirmed this result. Further more they were found to be ZS20+. One CTS6433+ member, Hepworth, tested Chromo2 and was found to be ZS20+, ZS21+, S8112+ but L1272-. He tested Big Y which confirmed this and two others testing Big Y have also shown up the same. So we now know that CTS661/L1272 is downstream of ZS20, ZS21 and S8112. We have been waiting 6 months for ZS20 to be added to the FTDNA order list. Further new SNPs were also identified. Big Y and Chromo2 have identified another branch of CTS6433 defined by the SNPs, S12606, S17264 and S25383 with a sub-branch defined by S25451. Pausback,and Myers are on this new branch with Fitzgerald on the sub-branch. Big Y results are still being analysed and they should produce further new SNPs for CTS6433+ sectors. The task then will be to have key ones added to the FTDNA order list. As slow as things may seem, considerable progress is being made in identifying new SNPs and having them recognised both by FTDNA and ISOGG. I note that you have an interesting haplotype with your known terminal SNP being L801 (equivalent to Z76, Z183, Z2198, CTS2392) but not on the new FTDNA Haplotree. Another one we are working to have FTDNA list on the tree. You are predicted CTS6433 but you could be CTS1977 as the diverse haplotypes for both branches can be easily confused. Only testing can really settle which branch - Cont2a or Cont2b. I hope this has helped clear up a few things for you. If you have any questions, please ask and if any of us volunteers can answer them, we will. Wayne. On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Holmes, Ryan D. (KSC-SAD20) < ryan.d.holmes@nasa.gov> wrote: > Heard a lot about Big Y results generating new branches in I1. That's > cool. It's been dead air on I2. Not sure if that's because of no I2 Big Y > results released or no one is as good as Ken at analyzing them. Ken is > pretty awesome. Thanks Ken! Then static over the air waves crackled into > a scant report of M233 related updates. Scant, because there was little > other than 'this group test this snp' to the update. I'd like more > understanding about these new SNP's. I've been burned in the past ordering > SNP's only to find they're equivalent. The following three SNP's were > reported to come out of Geno 2.0 and Big Y, whatever that means, and were > recommended to CTS6433 (Cont2a) members: > > PF3292 > CTS7010 > CTS5332 (possibly not offered yet by FTDNA, cause they suck) > > So what's the deal with these SNP's? In the old days, like a year ago, > when a new SNP came out this distribution was abuzz with chatter. We need > people from CTS6433 to test these, they'd say. Someone from this clade > should test first, they'd say. It was all so exciting, I could hardly wait > to read the next message. Now I barely get more than 'test this.' > > Who is positive for these SNP's? Who's negative? Who has ordered them? > Are there any STR markers that tag these SNPs? > > Ryan (losing interest fast, someone fan the flames) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you, Wayne, for the detailed response. I like this y-dna forum. I prefer it actually, although, for a long time, I've had the feeling that M223 members have dropped off of it for some reason. That's unfortunate. I have been monitoring the yahoo group's topics. I would join the group if yahoo could figure out how to create my profile. Sadly, numerous attempts to do this have resulted in failure. I recently joined the facebook group. My request was approved right away. Unfortunately, I find little new information in either. The facebook group has a lot of photos posted, most are of Ken's tree structure and are quite outdated. I did see a yahoo topic entitled CTS6433 where you briefly discuss ZS20. If more information is there, I can't find it. Where is the tree that shows all these SNPs with all the new branches you mention? A tree like Ken's I1 tree would certainly be easier to explain than the hard to follow discussion you posted. Thank you for taking the time to look at my haplotype. Instead of testing for CTS6433, Aaron suggested I could test the STR marker that splits L801 into CTS6433 and CTS1977. I chose this option as it was cheaper. I will utilize the spreadsheets to determine who is positive for PF3292 and check their distance against my haplotype. I should have realized that on my own. I am fortunate to be listed next to Thomas Humes' haplotype, who tested all the older branches beneath CTS6433. Without his efforts, I would know a lot less or have shelled out a lot more. Time I return the favor. The question remains: how do I get the most information for my money. I may wait until this Geno 2.0 update comes out. Lastly, I'd like to thank all the volunteers doing the heavy lifting in all of Haplogroup I. Your dedication is instrumental to this research. As is the many forerunners spending money on the latest products to the benefit of the rest of us. -----Original Message----- From: Wayne R. Roberts [mailto:i.m223.roberts@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:15 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Three new SNP's for CTS6433 (Cont2a) Hello Ryan, Thanks for your posting and you raise some valid questions. However, I'm not sure if you follow any of the discussions on the Project's Yahoogroups email list or our Facebook page. If not, then you have been missing out. The Continental 1 and Continental 2a (CTS6433+) sectors of the I-M223 Project are the largest sectors in the Project. Quite a few of the members did Geno 2.0 when that was released and it was from Geno 2.0 that CTS6433 was identified. This SNP linked Cont 1 (Z78+) and Cont2a (Z78-). Other new SNPs were revealed from Geno 2.0 and over the past 1-2 years we have been trying to place these SNPs into the Haplogroup I tree. Sometimes this can only be done through individual SNP testing. In Cont 1 for example we have been able to show that Z171 is upstream of Z185, that Z185 is upstream of Z180, that Z180 is upstream of L1198 which in turn is upstream of Z166. Some of these had been thought to be phyloequivalent and only though testing, sometime selective testing, have this been disproved. We now need to do the same with Z78 and Z171. Similarly for Cont2a, new SNPs found in the Geno 2.0 results of one or two testers need to be proved derived for others and shown ancestral for neighbouring clades. PF3292 and CTS7010 were found derived in one person, Winter, who did Geno 2.0. Only with the release of BritainsDNA's Chromo2 results earlier this year, was a second though anonymous, person found to be PF3292+ but they were CTS7010-. So this revealed that CTS7010 was either downstream of PF3292 or a misread by Geno 2.0. We now have both available for order at FTDNA but people should test PF3292 first. It is one of the SNPs included on the new FTDNA 2014 Haplotree. Please note, that six other SNPs placed as downstream of M223 in the new tree are all WRONG. We have asked they be removed. Looking at the Project's Y-DNA colorized results spreadsheet will show you what Winter's haplotype looks like. Checking the SNP page, one can see who has already tested for PF3292 and been found ancestral. CTS5332 was found in the Geno 2.0 results for two testers that joined the Project not too long ago. We had them test for or expand their STR markers and we have asked FTDNA to add CTS5332 to the order list. Again looking at the Project's spreadsheet you can see their haplotypes. CTS661 was another SNP identified through Geno 2.0. It has been found to be the same SNP as L1272. Various members identified by their haplotype tested for L1272 and were found derived. Recently CTS661 was added to the FTDNA order list. A couple of members have tested for this to show results are same as for L1272. Two of these CTS661+/L1272+ members tested with Big Y and it has confirmed this result. Further more they were found to be ZS20+. One CTS6433+ member, Hepworth, tested Chromo2 and was found to be ZS20+, ZS21+, S8112+ but L1272-. He tested Big Y which confirmed this and two others testing Big Y have also shown up the same. So we now know that CTS661/L1272 is downstream of ZS20, ZS21 and S8112. We have been waiting 6 months for ZS20 to be added to the FTDNA order list. Further new SNPs were also identified. Big Y and Chromo2 have identified another branch of CTS6433 defined by the SNPs, S12606, S17264 and S25383 with a sub-branch defined by S25451. Pausback,and Myers are on this new branch with Fitzgerald on the sub-branch. Big Y results are still being analysed and they should produce further new SNPs for CTS6433+ sectors. The task then will be to have key ones added to the FTDNA order list. As slow as things may seem, considerable progress is being made in identifying new SNPs and having them recognised both by FTDNA and ISOGG. I note that you have an interesting haplotype with your known terminal SNP being L801 (equivalent to Z76, Z183, Z2198, CTS2392) but not on the new FTDNA Haplotree. Another one we are working to have FTDNA list on the tree. You are predicted CTS6433 but you could be CTS1977 as the diverse haplotypes for both branches can be easily confused. Only testing can really settle which branch - Cont2a or Cont2b. I hope this has helped clear up a few things for you. If you have any questions, please ask and if any of us volunteers can answer them, we will. Wayne.