Where does Z-79 fit into all this? Sent from my iPad > On May 30, 2014, at 11:41 AM, "Wayne R. Roberts" <i.m223.roberts@gmail.com> wrote: > > Ryan, > > It would appear you are not reading the tree correctly. The * you have > noted infers there are mostly likely further SNPs downstream of that SNP. > > L801, Z183, Z76 are phyloequivalent SNPs to each other. As you tested for > L801, I will use that one. > > CTS6433 and CTS1977 and L1290 / L1317 are three "parallel" branches > downstream of L801. There will be others to be discovered but for now there > are three with known SNPs. > > If we look at the CTS6433 branch, then Z78 / Z171 and PF3292 and ZS20 and > CTS5332 and S12606 are five further branches that we know of that are > downstream of CTS6433. > > Downstream on the Z78 / Z171 branch is Z185, then Z180, then L1198, then > Z166, then Z187 then we know of further branches Z190 and F3195 and P195 > and PF5268 for starters. > > Downstream on the PF3292 branch we know there is CTS7010. > > Downstream on the ZS20 branch we know there is at least CTS661 also known > as L1272. > > Downstream on the CTS5332 branch further branches are yet to be discovered. > > Downstream on the S12606 branch we know there is at least S25451. > > What needs to be resolved is the placement of Z78 and Z171. Is it Z78 then > Z171 or Z171 then Z78 or are they both phyloequivalent (when one is > positive the other is also or when one is negative, the other is also)? > This should not concern you specifically as your makers would indicate you > are not part of this branch line. > > Of the other branches, only PF3292 is available to order at present as well > as it's sub CTS7010. And CTS661 or L1272 can also be ordered for that > sub-branch of ZS20 but people should check before they order these > sub-branch SNPs. > > We have requests in to have ZS20, CTS5332 and S12606 added to the FTDNA > order list. > > Hope that helps. Kenneth does have some M223 tree diagrams, if you have a > look at his file index. > > > > > On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Holmes, Ryan D. (KSC-SAD20) < > ryan.d.holmes@nasa.gov> wrote: > >> Wayne, >> >> I just checked out the results page at the FTDNA M223 project. Now I am >> really concerned. What's going on here? A quick look at the numbered >> outline formatted tree structure shown to be current as of May 26, 2014 >> shows what I believe to be numerous errors. As I read it, the tree lists >> CTS6433* as 1.2.2.1.1.1. Okay. Then it places Z78*, CTS1977*, and L1317, >> L1290 (no star) beneath or subsequent to CTS6433*. I know CTS1977 is not >> downstream of CTS6433. Furthermore, the recently recommended to test SNPs >> PF3292 and ZS20 are listed as subsequent or downstream of Z78*. If this is >> accurate than why ask Z78- people to test it. >> Am I reading this numerical tree structure correctly? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Wayne R. Roberts [mailto:i.m223.roberts@gmail.com] >> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:15 AM >> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i >> Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Three new SNP's for CTS6433 (Cont2a) >> >> Hello Ryan, >> >> Thanks for your posting and you raise some valid questions. However, I'm >> not sure if you follow any of the discussions on the Project's Yahoogroups >> email list or our Facebook page. If not, then you have been missing out. >> >> The Continental 1 and Continental 2a (CTS6433+) sectors of the I-M223 >> Project are the largest sectors in the Project. Quite a few of the members >> did Geno 2.0 when that was released and it was from Geno 2.0 that CTS6433 >> was identified. This SNP linked Cont 1 (Z78+) and Cont2a (Z78-). Other new >> SNPs were revealed from Geno 2.0 and over the past 1-2 years we have been >> trying to place these SNPs into the Haplogroup I tree. Sometimes this can >> only be done through individual SNP testing. In Cont 1 for example we have >> been able to show that Z171 is upstream of Z185, that Z185 is upstream of >> Z180, that Z180 is upstream of L1198 which in turn is upstream of Z166. >> Some of these had been thought to be phyloequivalent and only though >> testing, sometime selective testing, have this been disproved. We now need >> to do the same with Z78 and Z171. >> >> Similarly for Cont2a, new SNPs found in the Geno 2.0 results of one or two >> testers need to be proved derived for others and shown ancestral for >> neighbouring clades. PF3292 and CTS7010 were found derived in one person, >> Winter, who did Geno 2.0. Only with the release of BritainsDNA's Chromo2 >> results earlier this year, was a second though anonymous, person found to >> be PF3292+ but they were CTS7010-. So this revealed that CTS7010 was either >> downstream of PF3292 or a misread by Geno 2.0. We now have both available >> for order at FTDNA but people should test PF3292 first. It is one of the >> SNPs included on the new FTDNA 2014 Haplotree. Please note, that six other >> SNPs placed as downstream of M223 in the new tree are all WRONG. We have >> asked they be removed. Looking at the Project's Y-DNA colorized results >> spreadsheet will show you what Winter's haplotype looks like. Checking the >> SNP page, one can see who has already tested for PF3292 and been found >> ancestral. >> >> CTS5332 was found in the Geno 2.0 results for two testers that joined the >> Project not too long ago. We had them test for or expand their STR markers >> and we have asked FTDNA to add CTS5332 to the order list. Again looking at >> the Project's spreadsheet you can see their haplotypes. >> >> CTS661 was another SNP identified through Geno 2.0. It has been found to >> be the same SNP as L1272. Various members identified by their haplotype >> tested for L1272 and were found derived. Recently CTS661 was added to the >> FTDNA order list. A couple of members have tested for this to show results >> are same as for L1272. Two of these CTS661+/L1272+ members tested with Big >> Y and it has confirmed this result. Further more they were found to be >> ZS20+. >> >> One CTS6433+ member, Hepworth, tested Chromo2 and was found to be ZS20+, >> ZS21+, S8112+ but L1272-. He tested Big Y which confirmed this and two >> others testing Big Y have also shown up the same. So we now know that >> CTS661/L1272 is downstream of ZS20, ZS21 and S8112. We have been waiting 6 >> months for ZS20 to be added to the FTDNA order list. Further new SNPs were >> also identified. >> >> Big Y and Chromo2 have identified another branch of CTS6433 defined by the >> SNPs, S12606, S17264 and S25383 with a sub-branch defined by S25451. >> Pausback,and Myers are on this new branch with Fitzgerald on the >> sub-branch. >> >> Big Y results are still being analysed and they should produce further new >> SNPs for CTS6433+ sectors. The task then will be to have key ones added to >> the FTDNA order list. As slow as things may seem, considerable progress is >> being made in identifying new SNPs and having them recognised both by FTDNA >> and ISOGG. >> >> I note that you have an interesting haplotype with your known terminal SNP >> being L801 (equivalent to Z76, Z183, Z2198, CTS2392) but not on the new >> FTDNA Haplotree. Another one we are working to have FTDNA list on the tree. >> You are predicted CTS6433 but you could be CTS1977 as the diverse >> haplotypes for both branches can be easily confused. Only testing can >> really settle which branch - Cont2a or Cont2b. >> >> I hope this has helped clear up a few things for you. If you have any >> questions, please ask and if any of us volunteers can answer them, we will. >> Wayne. >> >> >> On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Holmes, Ryan D. (KSC-SAD20) < >> ryan.d.holmes@nasa.gov> wrote: >> >>> Heard a lot about Big Y results generating new branches in I1. That's >>> cool. It's been dead air on I2. Not sure if that's because of no I2 >>> Big Y results released or no one is as good as Ken at analyzing them. >>> Ken is pretty awesome. Thanks Ken! Then static over the air waves >>> crackled into a scant report of M233 related updates. Scant, because >>> there was little other than 'this group test this snp' to the update. >>> I'd like more understanding about these new SNP's. I've been burned >>> in the past ordering SNP's only to find they're equivalent. The >>> following three SNP's were reported to come out of Geno 2.0 and Big Y, >>> whatever that means, and were recommended to CTS6433 (Cont2a) members: >>> >>> PF3292 >>> CTS7010 >>> CTS5332 (possibly not offered yet by FTDNA, cause they suck) >>> >>> So what's the deal with these SNP's? In the old days, like a year >>> ago, when a new SNP came out this distribution was abuzz with chatter. >>> We need people from CTS6433 to test these, they'd say. Someone from >>> this clade should test first, they'd say. It was all so exciting, I >>> could hardly wait to read the next message. Now I barely get more than >> 'test this.' >>> >>> Who is positive for these SNP's? Who's negative? Who has ordered them? >>> Are there any STR markers that tag these SNPs? >>> >>> Ryan (losing interest fast, someone fan the flames) >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message