Looks at “BigYtree-L813” The five more ancient branch lines all have haplotypes with the more typical I1 12 at DYS464a instead of the unusual 11 characteristic of uN clades. Most of them also have the “normal” 15 at DYS464c. That ancient five includes the hefty clade I1d-911 with 14 at DYS393, high DYS388, 12 at 464a, 9 at H4 and mostly 11 at DYS390. The ancient five population is much older in its variance than the rest of L813+ uN clades. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net