http://www.y-str.org/ Don';t know whether this has been posted before These are pressented by Felix Chandrakumar from South Australia, Hewlitt Packard and Adelaide University. I have use a couple of the and there are a few others that look interesting that I haven't had a chance to. With BigY data they are very usefyl. BobDNA Projects I2b L415, I2c L596 HG & Tyler Surname and ISOGG YTree