Debbie, On behalf of my fellow Americans I'd like to object to your repeated digs at our ability to read and make intelligent analysis of controversial subject matter. Intentionally or not, YOU are presenting a very stereotypical image of your own nationality. Mr. Wades book will have followers and detractors over here no different than on your side of the pond. Rather than so inelegantly trying to censor his book, which I believe from your own statement you have not bothered to read, it might be better for your cause to present well reasoned counter-points to the assertions he makes in the book. John Beardsley an intelligent, open minded American -----Original Message----- From: Debbie Kennett Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2014 10:17 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Recommended book In Nicholas Wade's feeble attempt to rebut his critics he says "I don't care what the science may say because I'll never change my position". I think just about says it all. If he wishes to ignore the scientific evidence to advance his own personal beliefs then that's entirely his choice. I hadn't realised he was British. It's perhaps not surprising that he's ended up in America. He would find much less tolerance of his views over here. There's a very good article here by Kenan Malik on why both sides of the debate are wrong: https://kenanmalik.wordpress.com/2012/03/04/why-both-sides-are-wrong-in-the- race-debate/ Debbie -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Obed W Odom Sent: 29 June 2014 14:35 To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Recommended book I think the review by the NY Times was somewhat more charitable. There seems to be no question, though, that Wade's book has hit a raw nerve in some circles of his fellow Brits. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
John I am not in the least trying to censor the book. Note that Ken recommended the book to the list despite admitting that he hadn't even finished reading it. As I've tried to explain science is advanced by scientists doing research and writing scientific papers that are published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. It is a free world and if a reporter manages to get a commisssion to write on a subject in which he has no academic training or expertise then so be it. If people choose to read his book then that is their choice. It is my choice not to read such a book. I prefer to spend my time reading the original scientific papers rather than someone else's misinterpretation of those papers. Other people have already commented on the shortcomings of the book and its lack of scientific rigour, and I merely thought it would be helpful for people to read those reviews if they wanted so that they can perhaps try and understand the scientific viewpoint if they do choose to read the book. These authors have explained the problems with the book far more eloquently than I can. I provided those links for the benefit of all list members and not just Americans. Nationality should have nothing to do with it. The author of the book is after all a Brit. As you will recall, I also provided a link to a scientific paper by Guido Barbujani "Human Races: Classifying People vs Understanding Diversity" which gives a good summary of the current scientific thinking on the subject of "race". I've provided a TinyURL below as the link got broken up by Rootsweb so perhaps people had difficulty accessing the paper: http://tinyurl.com/mvdt487 Perhaps you might like to have a look at this paper with an open mind and let us know what you think. If you know of any scientific papers that offer a different view perhaps you can share them with us. Can I suggest that we focus our discussions on the science and not on emotions. Debbie
Debbie, Fortunately you, alone, can't censor the book, so that's not the issue. The thread began with a one sentence recommendation to read the book and did not include a review or analysis of the book. So your subsequent outburst of miscelaneous slander seems over the top and rather dark to me at least. But let's hope the brouha will wet the appetites of some and actually lead to more reading the book. I notice that among the folks on the book jacket saying positive things about their reaction to the book are hard scientists James D Watson and Edward O Wilson, and even soft scientist Lionel Tiger. Author Nicholas Wade was educated at England's Cambridge University in Natural Science, he was reporter or editor at the well known journals Science and Nature, and eventually science reporter/editor at the New York Times. So his was a long career of working at the interface of science and the general wider public with interest in science matters. The book was not meant to be a "peer reviewed" scientific article, for the little that has come to mean in today's world. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Debbie Kennett Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2014 1:54 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Recommended book John I am not in the least trying to censor the book. Note that Ken recommended the book to the list despite admitting that he hadn't even finished reading it. As I've tried to explain science is advanced by scientists doing research and writing scientific papers that are published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. It is a free world and if a reporter manages to get a commisssion to write on a subject in which he has no academic training or expertise then so be it. If people choose to read his book then that is their choice. It is my choice not to read such a book. I prefer to spend my time reading the original scientific papers rather than someone else's misinterpretation of those papers. Other people have already commented on the shortcomings of the book and its lack of scientific rigour, and I merely thought it would be helpful for people to read those reviews if they wanted so that they can perhaps try and understand the scientific viewpoint if they do choose to read the book. These authors have explained the problems with the book far more eloquently than I can. I provided those links for the benefit of all list members and not just Americans. Nationality should have nothing to do with it. The author of the book is after all a Brit. As you will recall, I also provided a link to a scientific paper by Guido Barbujani "Human Races: Classifying People vs Understanding Diversity" which gives a good summary of the current scientific thinking on the subject of "race". I've provided a TinyURL below as the link got broken up by Rootsweb so perhaps people had difficulty accessing the paper: http://tinyurl.com/mvdt487 Perhaps you might like to have a look at this paper with an open mind and let us know what you think. If you know of any scientific papers that offer a different view perhaps you can share them with us. Can I suggest that we focus our discussions on the science and not on emotions. Debbie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
This. Please remove me from this list. > From: knordtvedt@bresnan.net > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 15:27:34 -0600 > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Recommended book > > Debbie, Fortunately you, alone, can't censor the book, so that's not the > issue. The thread began with a one sentence recommendation to read the book > and did not include a review or analysis of the book. > > So your subsequent outburst of miscelaneous slander seems over the top and > rather dark to me at least. But let's hope the brouha will wet the > appetites of some and actually lead to more reading the book. > > I notice that among the folks on the book jacket saying positive things > about their reaction to the book are hard scientists James D Watson and > Edward O Wilson, and even soft scientist Lionel Tiger. > > Author Nicholas Wade was educated at England's Cambridge University in > Natural Science, he was reporter or editor at the well known journals > Science and Nature, and eventually science reporter/editor at the New York > Times. > > So his was a long career of working at the interface of science and the > general wider public with interest in science matters. The book was not > meant to be a "peer reviewed" scientific article, for the little that has > come to mean in today's world. > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Debbie Kennett > Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2014 1:54 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Recommended book > > John > > I am not in the least trying to censor the book. Note that Ken recommended > the book to the list despite admitting that he hadn't even finished reading > it. > > As I've tried to explain science is advanced by scientists doing research > and writing scientific papers that are published in peer-reviewed scientific > journals. It is a free world and if a reporter manages to get a commisssion > to write on a subject in which he has no academic training or expertise then > so be it. If people choose to read his book then that is their choice. It is > my choice not to read such a book. I prefer to spend my time reading the > original scientific papers rather than someone else's misinterpretation of > those papers. > > Other people have already commented on the shortcomings of the book and its > lack of scientific rigour, and I merely thought it would be helpful for > people to read those reviews if they wanted so that they can perhaps try and > understand the scientific viewpoint if they do choose to read the book. > These authors have explained the problems with the book far more eloquently > than I can. I provided those links for the benefit of all list members and > not just Americans. Nationality should have nothing to do with it. The > author of the book is after all a Brit. > > As you will recall, I also provided a link to a scientific paper by Guido > Barbujani "Human Races: Classifying People vs Understanding Diversity" which > gives a good summary of the current scientific thinking on the subject of > "race". I've provided a TinyURL below as the link got broken up by Rootsweb > so perhaps people had difficulty accessing the paper: > > http://tinyurl.com/mvdt487 > > Perhaps you might like to have a look at this paper with an open mind and > let us know what you think. If you know of any scientific papers that offer > a different view perhaps you can share them with us. > > Can I suggest that we focus our discussions on the science and not on > emotions. > > Debbie > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message