Diana, I see nothing in particular on your website that could suggest you have not present the Y-DNA information in an acceptable way. Admittedly, a few things need to be updated due to changes in Haplotree labelling at ISOGG and at FTDNA. References to I2b and I2b1 need to be updated with something like Haplogroup I-M223 (I2a2a at ISOGG, was previously I2b1 and before that I1c). You need bring the latest SNP testing info up into point 1 near the top of the page. eg. 1. Although both progenitors turn out to be Haplo*group_**I-M223 (I2a2a previous I2b1 and before that I1c)*, their STR haplo*types* indicate they are not closely related, debunking the assertion that Joseph RAZEE I was the father of Joseph RASEY I. They also differ significantly on their SNPs that determine their placement on the Haplotree and thus the time back to a common ancestor. Joseph RAZEE I paternal linage falls under the SNP branch line: M223 -> CTS616 -> CTS10057 -> Z183, L801 -> CTS6433 -> Z78, Z171 -> Z185 -> Z180 -> L1198*. Joseph RASEY I paternal linage falls under the SNP branch line: M223 -> CTS616 -> CTS10057 -> Z183, L801 -> CTS1977*. The time to a common ancestor is in the thousands of years, not a couple of hundred. See the ISOGG Y-tree for Haplogroup I at http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpI.html . (* - further SNPs will be found downstream) Wayne On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Ian Gammage <iangammage@iinet.net.au> wrote: > Hello Diana, > > I agree. I feel you have reacted maturely too. > > Best wishes, Ian > > -----Original Message----- > From: Diana Gale Matthiesen > Sent: Sunday, June 8, 2014 1:44 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Am I in error regarding RASEY-RAZEE non-match? > > Hello Ian, > > I'm relieved to know his tone seemed as offensive to you as it did to me. > It's not the kind of approach that seems intended to open a constructive > dialogue. > > Diana > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto: > y-dna-haplogroup-i- > > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ian Gammage > > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2014 11:20 PM > > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Am I in error regarding RASEY-RAZEE non-match? > > > > Diana, > > > > I don't know who is right and who is wrong on this question. I don't care > > either way. I just find the manner in which this person has presented his > > argument offensive. There is no need to use the terminology especially > > when > > no alternative answer is presented. This man would never make a teacher > > despite his specialist qualifications. Quite an academic snob. > > > > Best wishes, Ian > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Diana Gale Matthiesen > > Sent: Sunday, June 8, 2014 11:48 AM > > To: Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Am I in error regarding RASEY-RAZEE non-match? > > > > I just received the following message in regard to my RASEY Y-DNA Surname > > Project. As the two families involved belong to subclades of Haplogroup > > I2, > > I believe I could find no better group of experts to ask than subscribers > > to > > this list, so I would request your opinion. > > > > The project page is out-of-date with regard to all the recent changes to > > the > > Y-DNA haplotree, but I don't believe those have changed the relationship > > of > > the two families to each other: > > http://dgmweb.net/DNA/Rasey/RaseyDNA-results.html > > > > If I'm wrong about the two families not being connected in genealogical > > time, then I want to correct my error, though I'm baffled that he > > complains > > I don't give lineages. They're right there on the page (scroll to far > > right). > > > > This is the message: > > > > > From: David Harden [mailto:hrdndv@hotmail.com] > > > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2014 4:16 PM > > > To: DianaGM@dgmweb.net > > > Subject: Rasey Y-DNA Surname Project > > > > > > This is a complaint that you are not putting correct > > > information on your site. I am PhD Biologist specializing > > > in speciation. I know DNA. When you get an individual > > > representing Joseph Rasey and Mary Hollan you must present > > > the paternal lineage so it can be checked. There are many > > > people out there that have erroneous lineages. There are > > > also many family children lists that are linked to the > > > wrong parent. Quite often a male child born to the mother’s > > > first husband will adopt the surname of the second husband. > > > These problems cannot be examined when you do not give the > > > full male lineage. Your conclusion that Joseph Rasey who > > > married Mary Hollan is not related to the other Joseph > > > Rasey is bogus. You do not know this. If you did not mean > > > to say this in the results page then you should correct it. > > > You present y-DNA results in an amateurish unprofessional > > > way. You need to go back to school and learn what you are > > > doing. > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Wayne, Yes, as I said in my message, I know the SNP/haplotree information is out of date. And, yes, it's time to abandon hierarchical labels. However, I don't believe the new SNP data changes the relationships among the four tested individuals: two matching individuals in each of two unrelated families, which is my main concern genealogically. As some of you might have noticed, I haven't been messaging on the list for some months now — since just about the time BigY results started to come in. I simply haven't had the time with other matters pressing. I'm back trying to catch up with my projects, but we've just had a huge breakthrough in my CORBIN project (a major family has just "crossed the pond"), so I'll be tied up with that for awhile. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction with the RASEY-RAZEE page. I know it needs to be done. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Wayne R. Roberts > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2014 12:59 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Am I in error regarding RASEY-RAZEE non-match? > > Diana, I see nothing in particular on your website that could suggest you > have not present the Y-DNA information in an acceptable way. Admittedly, a > few things need to be updated due to changes in Haplotree labelling at > ISOGG and at FTDNA. References to I2b and I2b1 need to be updated with > something like Haplogroup I-M223 (I2a2a at ISOGG, was previously I2b1 and > before that I1c). > > You need bring the latest SNP testing info up into point 1 near the top of > the page. eg. > > 1. Although both progenitors turn out to be Haplo*group_**I-M223 (I2a2a > previous I2b1 and before that I1c)*, their STR haplo*types* indicate they > are not closely related, debunking the assertion that Joseph RAZEE I was > the father of Joseph RASEY I. They also differ significantly on their SNPs > that determine their placement on the Haplotree and thus the time back to a > common ancestor. Joseph RAZEE I paternal linage falls under the SNP branch > line: M223 -> CTS616 -> CTS10057 -> Z183, L801 -> CTS6433 -> Z78, Z171 -> > Z185 -> Z180 -> L1198*. Joseph RASEY I paternal linage falls under the SNP > branch line: M223 -> CTS616 -> CTS10057 -> Z183, L801 -> CTS1977*. The time > to a common ancestor is in the thousands of years, not a couple of hundred. > See the ISOGG Y-tree for Haplogroup I at > http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpI.html . (* - further SNPs will be > found downstream) > > Wayne