I am not convinced that a Gothic connection can be ruled out. In fact, I think the evidence is quite good. The only group that does not fit is the British segment. Given that Z63 is 2000 years older than the first attestation of the Goths, it is reasonable that a portion of the population separated from the other giving a multi-migration pattern that we see today. A Suebic and Vandal connection is also quite possible. 1. Re: Serbian I1 Macura Clan, Z63? (simo) > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: simo <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 13:31:25 +0100 > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Serbian I1 Macura Clan, Z63? > I would like just to inform you that we have done SNP tests , both Z63 and > Z58, on Macura haplotype and it appears that Macura's are Z63+. It helps me > a lot to understand its possible migration to Balkan, but it doesn't solve > its connection with the Goths. > > Observing all clades of Z63: in Britain, Spain and continental Europe, I > came to conclusion that Z63 cannot be connected with Goths but with some > other continental Europe germanic people. There two candidates, equally > interesting: Suebi or Suevi and Vandals. > Angli were mentioned as part of Suevic tribal union, and it seems to me > that Z63 is much more represented in parts of Britain settled with Angles. > It is also represented in central and northern Germany where Suevic tribes > lived. Even the part od Sweden known as Svealand (area around Stockholm) > have Z63 haplotypes in contrast with southern Sweden which is Z63 empty > (region from where supposedly Goths came from). Some scientist connects > these Svealand region and tribe of Suiones with Suevi. Also Z63 could be > found around region of Braga in northern Portugal and Spanish Galicia, > where for long period existed Suevic kingdom. > > Z63 is also very common in region of central Poland where people of Vandals > once lived. It is also region of Przeworsk archeological culture associated > with Vandals. Vandals according to some historians came from nowadays > Sweden from the area of Vendel, and it is the same region as Svealand > around Stockholm and also the only region in Sweden with higher Z63. > Vandals migrated together with Suevi to Spain, one of Vandals tribes > Hasdingi were incorporated in Suevic kingdom. > > So, as we see, Z63 coincide very well both with the Vandali and Suevi, but > it very little coincide with Goths. It is not presented in significant > numbers in some regions settled with Goths: sothern Ukraine, Italy, > southern France, Gotland in Sweden. Also it is presented in Britain where > goths never lived. Probably some Goths absorbed groups of Vandals on their > way from northern to Southern europe. Maybe that's how we can explain some > "crimean Goths" Z63 haplotypes found in southern Russia. > > Balkan Z63 could be very easily descended from some slavicized germanic > tribes of central Europe which together with Slavs in 7th century AD > settled on Balkan peninsula. For example Vandali Silingi became Slavic > Silesians, there is a lot of such examples. > > Simo > > >