> Greetings Simo Your observation that "Z63 is much more represented in parts of Britain settled with Angles" directly corresponds with my research around my family which I have traced to the Gloucestershire/Wiltshire borders in England along the Thames which was the border between the ancient kingdoms of Mercia and Wessex. Whilst there is an outside chance of Viking ancestry in that area, an Angle or Saxon origin is much more likely given its history. Given that the family was more concentrated to the north of the Thames, we were tending towards the Angles as our ancestors, so thank you for your information which reinforces our suspicions. Regards John > From: simo <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Serbian I1 Macura Clan, Z63? > Date: 13 January 2014 12:31:25 GMT > To: [email protected] > Reply-To: [email protected] > > > I would like just to inform you that we have done SNP tests , both Z63 and > Z58, on Macura haplotype and it appears that Macura's are Z63+. It helps me > a lot to understand its possible migration to Balkan, but it doesn't solve > its connection with the Goths. > > Observing all clades of Z63: in Britain, Spain and continental Europe, I > came to conclusion that Z63 cannot be connected with Goths but with some > other continental Europe germanic people. There two candidates, equally > interesting: Suebi or Suevi and Vandals. > Angli were mentioned as part of Suevic tribal union, and it seems to me > that Z63 is much more represented in parts of Britain settled with Angles. > It is also represented in central and northern Germany where Suevic tribes > lived. Even the part od Sweden known as Svealand (area around Stockholm) > have Z63 haplotypes in contrast with southern Sweden which is Z63 empty > (region from where supposedly Goths came from). Some scientist connects > these Svealand region and tribe of Suiones with Suevi. Also Z63 could be > found around region of Braga in northern Portugal and Spanish Galicia, > where for long period existed Suevic kingdom. > > Z63 is also very common in region of central Poland where people of Vandals > once lived. It is also region of Przeworsk archeological culture associated > with Vandals. Vandals according to some historians came from nowadays > Sweden from the area of Vendel, and it is the same region as Svealand > around Stockholm and also the only region in Sweden with higher Z63. > Vandals migrated together with Suevi to Spain, one of Vandals tribes > Hasdingi were incorporated in Suevic kingdom. > > So, as we see, Z63 coincide very well both with the Vandali and Suevi, but > it very little coincide with Goths. It is not presented in significant > numbers in some regions settled with Goths: sothern Ukraine, Italy, > southern France, Gotland in Sweden. Also it is presented in Britain where > goths never lived. Probably some Goths absorbed groups of Vandals on their > way from northern to Southern europe. Maybe that's how we can explain some > "crimean Goths" Z63 haplotypes found in southern Russia. > > Balkan Z63 could be very easily descended from some slavicized germanic > tribes of central Europe which together with Slavs in 7th century AD > settled on Balkan peninsula. For example Vandali Silingi became Slavic > Silesians, there is a lot of such examples. > > Simo > > > >

It sure would be great to get a Chromo2 raw data for someone from Z63+ branch of I1. There is a new snp, S2007, which is derived for Z58+ branch of I1 but not for the CTS6364+ branch (S2007 is presently phyloequivalent to Z58). Status of S2007 for Z63+ would allow us to learn order of some key I1 tree nodes of 4000 years ago. See "Tree for I1 x Z58 x L22". If you are Z63+ and have Chromo2 results but don't wish to share raw data file, nevertheless please just read your S2007 result and let us know that. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: John Ritchings Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2014 2:40 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [yDNAhgI] Serbian I1 Macura Clan, Z63? > Greetings Simo Your observation that "Z63 is much more represented in parts of Britain settled with Angles" directly corresponds with my research around my family which I have traced to the Gloucestershire/Wiltshire borders in England along the Thames which was the border between the ancient kingdoms of Mercia and Wessex. Whilst there is an outside chance of Viking ancestry in that area, an Angle or Saxon origin is much more likely given its history. Given that the family was more concentrated to the north of the Thames, we were tending towards the Angles as our ancestors, so thank you for your information which reinforces our suspicions. Regards John > From: simo <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Serbian I1 Macura Clan, Z63? > Date: 13 January 2014 12:31:25 GMT > To: [email protected] > Reply-To: [email protected] > > > I would like just to inform you that we have done SNP tests , both Z63 and > Z58, on Macura haplotype and it appears that Macura's are Z63+. It helps > me > a lot to understand its possible migration to Balkan, but it doesn't solve > its connection with the Goths. > > Observing all clades of Z63: in Britain, Spain and continental Europe, I > came to conclusion that Z63 cannot be connected with Goths but with some > other continental Europe germanic people. There two candidates, equally > interesting: Suebi or Suevi and Vandals. > Angli were mentioned as part of Suevic tribal union, and it seems to me > that Z63 is much more represented in parts of Britain settled with Angles. > It is also represented in central and northern Germany where Suevic tribes > lived. Even the part od Sweden known as Svealand (area around Stockholm) > have Z63 haplotypes in contrast with southern Sweden which is Z63 empty > (region from where supposedly Goths came from). Some scientist connects > these Svealand region and tribe of Suiones with Suevi. Also Z63 could be > found around region of Braga in northern Portugal and Spanish Galicia, > where for long period existed Suevic kingdom. > > Z63 is also very common in region of central Poland where people of > Vandals > once lived. It is also region of Przeworsk archeological culture > associated > with Vandals. Vandals according to some historians came from nowadays > Sweden from the area of Vendel, and it is the same region as Svealand > around Stockholm and also the only region in Sweden with higher Z63. > Vandals migrated together with Suevi to Spain, one of Vandals tribes > Hasdingi were incorporated in Suevic kingdom. > > So, as we see, Z63 coincide very well both with the Vandali and Suevi, but > it very little coincide with Goths. It is not presented in significant > numbers in some regions settled with Goths: sothern Ukraine, Italy, > southern France, Gotland in Sweden. Also it is presented in Britain where > goths never lived. Probably some Goths absorbed groups of Vandals on their > way from northern to Southern europe. Maybe that's how we can explain some > "crimean Goths" Z63 haplotypes found in southern Russia. > > Balkan Z63 could be very easily descended from some slavicized germanic > tribes of central Europe which together with Slavs in 7th century AD > settled on Balkan peninsula. For example Vandali Silingi became Slavic > Silesians, there is a lot of such examples. > > Simo > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message