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    1. Re: [yDNAhgI] P78+ Cont-3 should get 111 markers
    2. Dave Hamm

    3. Hello Ken, RE: > One might want to look at 406 = 10, 11, and 12 populations to see if they differ statistically on geography? My Y-Search data from 2011 contains DYS406S1 modal values of 8,9,10. A quick spot check shows no 11 and 12 from my (Y-Search) data of two years ago. Maybe a close inspection might show the details better. I have 333 modal groups, but have not yet done your request for the statistics on that data. My old list of countries are (for DYS406S1) geographic modals by country: (Not exclusive to P78) Austria 9 Belarus 9 Belgium 9,10 (3 modal groups in Belgium) Croatia 9 Czech Republic 9 (2 modal groups for Czech Republic) Denmark 8,9,10 (roughly 8 modal groups for Denmark) England 8,9,10 ( roughly 61 modal groups in England) Finland 8,9,10 (roughly 12 modal groups in Finland) France 8,9,10 (roughly 23 modals groups in France) Germany 9,10 (roughly 55 modal groups in Germany) Hungary 9 (2 modal groups for Hungary) Ireland 9 (roughly 23 modal groups in Ireland) Italy 9, (Scott adds 10 below) Lithuania 9 (4 modal groups for Lithuania) Netherlands 9 (roughly 7 modal groups in the Netherlands) Norway 9,10 (roughly 19 modal groups in Norway) Poland 8,9 (roughly 15 modal groups in Poland) Portugal 8,9 Romania 9 Russia 9, 10 (roughly 6 modal groups in Russia) Scotland 9 (roughly 41 modal groups in Scotland) Sicily 9 Slovenia 9 (two modal groups in Slovenia) Spain 9 (three modal groups for Spain) Sweden 9 (roughly 15 modal groups in Sweden) Switzerland 9,10 (roughly 13 modal groups in Switzerland) Turkey 9 Ukraine 10 Wales 9 I believe the above totals to 319 modal groups. I believe I have listed 29 specific geographical areas. Probably safe to presume those that I did not indicate modal total for were a modal group of one. For DYS406S1 = "10" Counting Scott's value of 10 for Italy, that is about ten geographic areas out of 29 geographical areas that have DYS406S1 value of "10." (roughly 35%) And separately, a manual count shows about 16 of my geographical modal groups out of my 319 geographical modal groups (displayed) that have a DYS406S1 value of "10." (Roughly 5% of all groups) Which geographically, probably makes it a nice fit for Danish Vikings and Normans?? Again, I have no geographic data handy for DYS406S1 with values of 11 and 12, aside from what you list below. - Dave ====================================================================== Dave Hamm Franklin, OH HAM Surname DNA Project Coordinator email: [email protected] URL: http://home.earthlink.net/~odoniv/HamCountry/HAMCountry.html ====================================================================== RE: On 1/18/2014 3:06 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Subject: > Re: [yDNAhgI] P78+ Cont-3 should get 111 markers > From: > "Scott E. Stewart" <[email protected]> > Date: > 1/18/2014 3:06 PM > > To: > <[email protected]> > > > Circone 98520 is DYF406S1=10: > 98520 Circone Italy Italy I2b1c 14 23 15 10 15-15 11 13 12 13 12 31 17 8-9 > 11 11 24 14 20 27 14-14-15-16 12 9 19-21 16 15 18 19 35-35 12 10 11 8 15-15 > 8 11 10 8 10 9 > -----Original Message----- > From:[email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kenneth > Nordtvedt > Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 8:24 PM > To:[email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] P78+ Cont-3 should get 111 markers > > 406=10 > Novak Dubnany > Schlactmeier (Ger) > Gaezza (Naples It) > Jakovlev (Rus) > Russell > Kara Murza 174263 (Arm) > Giraco (Tk Arm) > Kiriakos > Di Buono (It) > Jackson McCally Miranda > McAnally > Horsman > Sandell (Sw?) > > > > 406=12 > Butler 102316 > Martin > Fowler 288279 > Mullinax > Grimaldi > Bloch Szczodrowski > Chabanian 169454 (Arm) > Budarik (Sorbian) > Smolenyak > Myers > Wujciga > Fischer 192817 > MacDougall > Embody > Olson > Rose > Brewer 44994 > Ei968 Hermans (Neth) > Weliver > Butler > andrews > Germain (Germany) > > Truax > Clist (SW Eng Wales?) > Duguay (France) > Ritscher (Austria, Dresden?) > Mlady Czech > > > > 406=11 > Vanzant > Rockel > YCC61 (Ger) > N87122 Fanoy (France) > Galui (Roma Italy) > Waite > Long 48610 > Torkington > Kuch (Austria) > Ballough (Hun) > ?????? > Bartlett 237946 > Putnam > Spalding > Foster > Essenmacher > Alfred Joseph Sanchez > Fults > Bucher (Sz) > Linville > Knipp (Germany) > Birkoben (Lithuania) > Malinowski (Uk) > Dreisbach > Warren > Kyle > Stewart N86836 > > The above is a division of much of P78 based on DYS406 value. I am sorry my > coloring does not come through. Each of those divisions, 10,11,12 for 406, > is divided into many, many tiny clusters. There is no big clustering or > obvious clades. > P78 must have expanded robustly right from its founder. This mess repeats > itself with the 68-111 panel of STRs which I am equipped to look at > separately. > > What is missing in the above lists? The P78J clade which is actually the > biggest and a definite subclade of P78 really separates nicely from rest of > P78. > > Then I have a bunch of short P78 haplotypes which can't be associated with > any clusters or by DYS406 values. > > Other than P78J, I am not comfortable with any further subclades in P78 > unless you want to push use of "clade" to cover haplotype pairs, triplets, > etc. > > One might want to look at 406 = 10, 11, and 12 populations to see if they > differ statistically on geography? > > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt --

    01/19/2014 06:37:27
    1. Re: [yDNAhgI] P78+ Cont-3 should get 111 markers
    2. Kenneth Nordtvedt

    3. I do that segregation now in my database. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Dave Hamm Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 11:37 AM To: Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] P78+ Cont-3 should get 111 markers Hello Ken, RE: > One might want to look at 406 = 10, 11, and 12 populations to see if they differ statistically on geography? My Y-Search data from 2011 contains DYS406S1 modal values of 8,9,10. A quick spot check shows no 11 and 12 from my (Y-Search) data of two years ago. Maybe a close inspection might show the details better. I have 333 modal groups, but have not yet done your request for the statistics on that data. My old list of countries are (for DYS406S1) geographic modals by country: (Not exclusive to P78) Austria 9 Belarus 9 Belgium 9,10 (3 modal groups in Belgium) Croatia 9 Czech Republic 9 (2 modal groups for Czech Republic) Denmark 8,9,10 (roughly 8 modal groups for Denmark) England 8,9,10 ( roughly 61 modal groups in England) Finland 8,9,10 (roughly 12 modal groups in Finland) France 8,9,10 (roughly 23 modals groups in France) Germany 9,10 (roughly 55 modal groups in Germany) Hungary 9 (2 modal groups for Hungary) Ireland 9 (roughly 23 modal groups in Ireland) Italy 9, (Scott adds 10 below) Lithuania 9 (4 modal groups for Lithuania) Netherlands 9 (roughly 7 modal groups in the Netherlands) Norway 9,10 (roughly 19 modal groups in Norway) Poland 8,9 (roughly 15 modal groups in Poland) Portugal 8,9 Romania 9 Russia 9, 10 (roughly 6 modal groups in Russia) Scotland 9 (roughly 41 modal groups in Scotland) Sicily 9 Slovenia 9 (two modal groups in Slovenia) Spain 9 (three modal groups for Spain) Sweden 9 (roughly 15 modal groups in Sweden) Switzerland 9,10 (roughly 13 modal groups in Switzerland) Turkey 9 Ukraine 10 Wales 9 I believe the above totals to 319 modal groups. I believe I have listed 29 specific geographical areas. Probably safe to presume those that I did not indicate modal total for were a modal group of one. For DYS406S1 = "10" Counting Scott's value of 10 for Italy, that is about ten geographic areas out of 29 geographical areas that have DYS406S1 value of "10." (roughly 35%) And separately, a manual count shows about 16 of my geographical modal groups out of my 319 geographical modal groups (displayed) that have a DYS406S1 value of "10." (Roughly 5% of all groups) Which geographically, probably makes it a nice fit for Danish Vikings and Normans?? Again, I have no geographic data handy for DYS406S1 with values of 11 and 12, aside from what you list below. - Dave ====================================================================== Dave Hamm Franklin, OH HAM Surname DNA Project Coordinator email: [email protected] URL: http://home.earthlink.net/~odoniv/HamCountry/HAMCountry.html ====================================================================== RE: On 1/18/2014 3:06 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Subject: > Re: [yDNAhgI] P78+ Cont-3 should get 111 markers > From: > "Scott E. Stewart" <[email protected]> > Date: > 1/18/2014 3:06 PM > > To: > <[email protected]> > > > Circone 98520 is DYF406S1=10: > 98520 Circone Italy Italy I2b1c 14 23 15 10 15-15 11 13 12 13 12 31 17 > 8-9 > 11 11 24 14 20 27 14-14-15-16 12 9 19-21 16 15 18 19 35-35 12 10 11 8 > 15-15 > 8 11 10 8 10 9 > -----Original Message----- > From:[email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kenneth > Nordtvedt > Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 8:24 PM > To:[email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] P78+ Cont-3 should get 111 markers > > 406=10 > Novak Dubnany > Schlactmeier (Ger) > Gaezza (Naples It) > Jakovlev (Rus) > Russell > Kara Murza 174263 (Arm) > Giraco (Tk Arm) > Kiriakos > Di Buono (It) > Jackson McCally Miranda > McAnally > Horsman > Sandell (Sw?) > > > > 406=12 > Butler 102316 > Martin > Fowler 288279 > Mullinax > Grimaldi > Bloch Szczodrowski > Chabanian 169454 (Arm) > Budarik (Sorbian) > Smolenyak > Myers > Wujciga > Fischer 192817 > MacDougall > Embody > Olson > Rose > Brewer 44994 > Ei968 Hermans (Neth) > Weliver > Butler > andrews > Germain (Germany) > > Truax > Clist (SW Eng Wales?) > Duguay (France) > Ritscher (Austria, Dresden?) > Mlady Czech > > > > 406=11 > Vanzant > Rockel > YCC61 (Ger) > N87122 Fanoy (France) > Galui (Roma Italy) > Waite > Long 48610 > Torkington > Kuch (Austria) > Ballough (Hun) > ?????? > Bartlett 237946 > Putnam > Spalding > Foster > Essenmacher > Alfred Joseph Sanchez > Fults > Bucher (Sz) > Linville > Knipp (Germany) > Birkoben (Lithuania) > Malinowski (Uk) > Dreisbach > Warren > Kyle > Stewart N86836 > > The above is a division of much of P78 based on DYS406 value. I am sorry > my > coloring does not come through. Each of those divisions, 10,11,12 for > 406, > is divided into many, many tiny clusters. There is no big clustering or > obvious clades. > P78 must have expanded robustly right from its founder. This mess repeats > itself with the 68-111 panel of STRs which I am equipped to look at > separately. > > What is missing in the above lists? The P78J clade which is actually the > biggest and a definite subclade of P78 really separates nicely from rest > of > P78. > > Then I have a bunch of short P78 haplotypes which can't be associated with > any clusters or by DYS406 values. > > Other than P78J, I am not comfortable with any further subclades in P78 > unless you want to push use of "clade" to cover haplotype pairs, triplets, > etc. > > One might want to look at 406 = 10, 11, and 12 populations to see if they > differ statistically on geography? > > - - - - > Kenneth Nordtvedt -- ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    01/19/2014 04:59:21