Interesting article. The authors speculate that the Picts might have been I1 or I2 although I thought that the Picts were probably a Celtic people. I also wonder if haplogroup I1 had reached Britain that early? Matthew Simonds > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 20:01:05 -0500 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 3 ancestral populations for present-day Europeans > > Way back on 17 May of last year, a paper was posted on this forum by Sue > Heeden, that might be relevant to the discussion. > > I am attaching a copy for ease of access. It approaches the 3 populations > from a linguistics point of view, and tries to explain those long branch > distances seen in other haplogroups. It is *DNA Genealogy and Linguistics. > Ancient Europe * > > www.scirp.org/journal/aa/ > > > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link > attachments: > AA_2013051612554944-1.pdf > > > On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 7:30 PM, T.J. White <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Possibly indicating that Haplogroup I* was once much more widespread across > > Europe, prior to the invasions of R1b and R1a. > > > > Terry W. > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>From what I remember, the Picts were autochthonic and Pre-Celtic, although later absorbed by the Celts. Who knows what their major haplogroups may have been? Terry W. On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Matthew Simonds <[email protected]>wrote: > Interesting article. The authors speculate that the Picts might have been > I1 or I2 although I thought that the Picts were probably a Celtic people. I > also wonder if haplogroup I1 had reached Britain that early? > > Matthew Simonds > > > > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 20:01:05 -0500 > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 3 ancestral populations for present-day Europeans > > > > Way back on 17 May of last year, a paper was posted on this forum by Sue > > Heeden, that might be relevant to the discussion. > > > > I am attaching a copy for ease of access. It approaches the 3 > populations > > from a linguistics point of view, and tries to explain those long branch > > distances seen in other haplogroups. It is *DNA Genealogy and > Linguistics. > > Ancient Europe * > > > > www.scirp.org/journal/aa/ > > > > > > > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link > > attachments: > > AA_2013051612554944-1.pdf > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 7:30 PM, T.J. White <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Possibly indicating that Haplogroup I* was once much more widespread > across > > > Europe, prior to the invasions of R1b and R1a. > > > > > > Terry W. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- "All forces have been steadily employ’d to complete and delight me. ..." Walt Whitman, "Leaves of Grass," 14, line 1165

The pre-celtic claim of the pcts seems to come from Scottish myhtology giving them a Scythian homeland. The term is a Roman one (most likely never used by the groups being described) and just means painted ones, as in Pre Roman Britain people used body paint and in parts of Britain that the Romans conquered the practice was abolished. As it was still practiced North of the wall the Romans referred to the wildlings as Picts. On Tuesday, January 7, 2014 4:09 PM, T.J. White <[email protected]> wrote: >From what I remember, the Picts were autochthonic and Pre-Celtic, although later absorbed by the Celts. Who knows what their major haplogroups may have been? Terry W. On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Matthew Simonds <[email protected]>wrote: > Interesting article. The authors speculate that the Picts might have been > I1 or I2 although I thought that the Picts were probably a Celtic people. I > also wonder if haplogroup I1 had reached Britain that early? > > Matthew Simonds > > > > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 20:01:05 -0500 > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 3 ancestral populations for present-day Europeans > > > > Way back on 17 May of last year, a paper was posted on this forum by Sue > > Heeden, that might be relevant to the discussion. > > > >  I am attaching a copy for ease of access.  It approaches the 3 > populations > > from a linguistics point of view, and tries to explain those long branch > > distances seen in other haplogroups.  It is *DNA Genealogy and > Linguistics. > > Ancient Europe * > > > > www.scirp.org/journal/aa/ > > > > > > > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link > > attachments: > > AA_2013051612554944-1.pdf > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 7:30 PM, T.J. White <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Possibly indicating that Haplogroup I* was once much more widespread > across > > > Europe, prior to the invasions of R1b and R1a. > > > > > > Terry W. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- "All forces have been steadily employ’d to complete and delight me. ..." Walt Whitman, "Leaves of Grass," 14, line 1165 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Makes sense. Terry W. On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Rossa Mullen <[email protected]> wrote: > The pre-celtic claim of the pcts seems to come from Scottish myhtology > giving them a Scythian homeland. The term is a Roman one (most likely never > used by the groups being described) and just means painted ones, as in Pre > Roman Britain people used body paint and in parts of Britain that the > Romans conquered the practice was abolished. As it was still practiced > North of the wall the Romans referred to the wildlings as Picts. > > > > > On Tuesday, January 7, 2014 4:09 PM, T.J. White <[email protected]> > wrote: > > >From what I remember, the Picts were autochthonic and Pre-Celtic, although > later absorbed by the Celts. Who knows what their major haplogroups may > have been? > > Terry W. > > > On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Matthew Simonds <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > Interesting article. The authors speculate that the Picts might have been > > I1 or I2 although I thought that the Picts were probably a Celtic > people. I > > also wonder if haplogroup I1 had reached Britain that early? > > > > Matthew Simonds > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 20:01:05 -0500 > > > From: [email protected] > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 3 ancestral populations for present-day > Europeans > > > > > > Way back on 17 May of last year, a paper was posted on this forum by > Sue > > > Heeden, that might be relevant to the discussion. > > > > > > I am attaching a copy for ease of access. It approaches the 3 > > populations > > > from a linguistics point of view, and tries to explain those long > branch > > > distances seen in other haplogroups. It is *DNA Genealogy and > > Linguistics. > > > Ancient Europe * > > > > > > www.scirp.org/journal/aa/ > > > > > > > > > > > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link > > > attachments: > > > AA_2013051612554944-1.pdf > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 7:30 PM, T.J. White <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > Possibly indicating that Haplogroup I* was once much more widespread > > across > > > > Europe, prior to the invasions of R1b and R1a. > > > > > > > > Terry W. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > "All forces have been steadily employ’d to complete and delight me. ..." > > Walt Whitman, "Leaves of Grass," 14, line 1165 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- "All forces have been steadily employ’d to complete and delight me. ..." Walt Whitman, "Leaves of Grass," 14, line 1165

The article "DNA Genealogy and Linguistics" by Klyosov and Tomezzoli also says that I1, I2 and G2 were probably a "Semiditic" people. But according to Wikipedia, "The Atlantic languages of Semitic or 'Semitidic' (para-Semitic) origin are a disputed concept in historical linguistics put forward by Theo Vennemann. The theory has found no notable acceptance in academic circles, and is criticised as being based on sparse and often misinterpreted data." This article also uses the term "Arbin" for non-Indo-European R1b peoples, but I can hardly find anything online that uses this term "Arbin". I've never seen it before. Matthew Simonds > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 22:00:29 +0000 > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 3 ancestral populations for present-day Europeans > > Interesting article. The authors speculate that the Picts might have been I1 or I2 although I thought that the Picts were probably a Celtic people. I also wonder if haplogroup I1 had reached Britain that early? > > Matthew Simonds > > > > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 20:01:05 -0500 > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 3 ancestral populations for present-day Europeans > > > > Way back on 17 May of last year, a paper was posted on this forum by Sue > > Heeden, that might be relevant to the discussion. > > > > I am attaching a copy for ease of access. It approaches the 3 populations > > from a linguistics point of view, and tries to explain those long branch > > distances seen in other haplogroups. It is *DNA Genealogy and Linguistics. > > Ancient Europe * > > > > www.scirp.org/journal/aa/ > > > > > > > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link > > attachments: > > AA_2013051612554944-1.pdf > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 7:30 PM, T.J. White <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Possibly indicating that Haplogroup I* was once much more widespread across > > > Europe, prior to the invasions of R1b and R1a. > > > > > > Terry W. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message