> I hope this paper encourages the study of more ancient dna samples from Europe and from as many different time periods as possible. Ancient DNA studies are one of the most exciting new frontiers. It's already very interesting (if I am not mistaken) that there is no haplogroup R in the oldest ancient DNA samples reported so far from Western Europe. Matthew Simonds > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 13:31:02 -0700 > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 3 ancestral populations for present-day Europeans > > Yes, it is a very interesting paper, especially to haplogroup I folks. Unfortunately they did not go as far as they could have gone because they limited themselves to ISOGG tree; this situation can maybe be remedied.. I hope this paper encourages the study of more ancient dna samples from Europe and from as many different time periods as possible. > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > > > From: Didier VERNADE > Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2014 1:23 PM > To: Kenneth Nordtvedt ; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 3 ancestral populations for present-day Europeans > > > OK, tanks for the update ; I hope the link will still be of some use for other late comers like me ! > > > > > > > > > You apparently have not been tuned in. It has been discusssed rather > > extensively on this list. If you look at "Tree and Map for haplogroup I" > > and "Tree for L161" you can see some of the very interesting snp placements > > and new tree branch resulting from testing of many recent snp discoveries > > from Geno2 on some of these 8000 b.p. dna samples. I think there is more to > > come if Mortala2 and Mortala9 turn out to be readble for an additional bunch > > of ysnps presented to them. > > > > > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > It seems that the recent paper, "Ancient human genomes suggest three > > ancestral populations for present-day Europeans" wasn't discussed on this > > list while the early european seem to be of I haplogroup. Here is a link : > > > > http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2013/12/23/001552 > > > > > > > > Didier Vernade > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Possibly indicating that Haplogroup I* was once much more widespread across Europe, prior to the invasions of R1b and R1a. Terry W.

Luxuemberg to Sweden certain speaks about the haplogroup I possibility concerning northern Europe. But prior to arrival of R1b and R1a, some other haplogroups had to represent larger fraction of population most everywhere; that's a mathematical certainty. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: T.J. White Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2014 5:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 3 ancestral populations for present-day Europeans Possibly indicating that Haplogroup I* was once much more widespread across Europe, prior to the invasions of R1b and R1a. Terry W. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A couple of weeks ago I watched Spencer Well's PBS documentary Journey of Man from 2003 and it was very interesting, but he implied that his own haplogroup, R1b, was one of the oldest in Europe and was the haplogroup of the Cro-Magnon. So it's fascinating to see how new ancient DNA studies have overturned prior theories about ancient European populations. Here's a quote from Wells that I found online: "Men belonging to Haplogroup R1b are direct descendants of the Cro-Magnon people who, beginning 30,000 years ago, dominated the human expansion into Europe and heralded the demise of the Neanderthal species," Wells said.Matthew Simonds > Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 19:30:33 -0500 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 3 ancestral populations for present-day Europeans > > Possibly indicating that Haplogroup I* was once much more widespread across > Europe, prior to the invasions of R1b and R1a. > > Terry W. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Mr Wells has had his assertions cut down on multiple occasions. He is too much of a promoter to stick closer to the evidence in his claims, but not alone in this tendency. Back around 2003, or shortly thereafter, The "R1b were the ancient populators of Europe crowd" simply refused to accept the better STR-based haplotype dating (as longer haplotypes became available in larger numbers)which pointed to R1b in Europe being too young to be the first post-glacial folks. They insisted on dating estimate methods which produced ages two or more times older than what would today be considered more believable numbers. The view that y haplogroup I was probably in Europe well before R1b's arrival from places further east did not come from ancient dna but from age estimates of present-day clades and haplogroups and the trees exhibiting how they all fit together through time. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Simonds Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2014 5:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 3 ancestral populations for present-day Europeans A couple of weeks ago I watched Spencer Well's PBS documentary Journey of Man from 2003 and it was very interesting, but he implied that his own haplogroup, R1b, was one of the oldest in Europe and was the haplogroup of the Cro-Magnon. So it's fascinating to see how new ancient DNA studies have overturned prior theories about ancient European populations. Here's a quote from Wells that I found online: "Men belonging to Haplogroup R1b are direct descendants of the Cro-Magnon people who, beginning 30,000 years ago, dominated the human expansion into Europe and heralded the demise of the Neanderthal species," Wells said.Matthew Simonds > Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 19:30:33 -0500 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 3 ancestral populations for present-day Europeans > > Possibly indicating that Haplogroup I* was once much more widespread > across > Europe, prior to the invasions of R1b and R1a. > > Terry W. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Way back on 17 May of last year, a paper was posted on this forum by Sue Heeden, that might be relevant to the discussion. I am attaching a copy for ease of access. It approaches the 3 populations from a linguistics point of view, and tries to explain those long branch distances seen in other haplogroups. It is *DNA Genealogy and Linguistics. Ancient Europe * www.scirp.org/journal/aa/ The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: AA_2013051612554944-1.pdf On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 7:30 PM, T.J. White <[email protected]> wrote: > Possibly indicating that Haplogroup I* was once much more widespread across > Europe, prior to the invasions of R1b and R1a. > > Terry W. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >