No; that would be a big mistake I believe. There is a very large population of DF29- Z131- people in the database. You have no idea whether they are L1439+ or L1439-. If you believe you do know what these DF29- Z131- people are for L1439, what is it and why? Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Diana Gale Matthiesen Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 9:14 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] L1439 moves upstream but....... L1439 appears to be phyloequivalent to M253, so we can stop testing it. The only clade left to seal the deal are the PF49+'s: http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#PF49 If one of them tests positive for L1439, I can remove this SNP from the matrix, entirely. Diana > From: JB McCrummen > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 10:31 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] L1439 moves upstream but....... > > > Thanks for your advice Ken. I will cancel the order. > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If L1439 turns out to be phyloequivalent to M253, we can stop testing it, just as we've stopped testing P30, P40, and its other equivalents. But as I show in the matrix, those who are DF29- and Z131- still need to test it (and PF49): http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#M253* It would be desirable for the those who are PF49+ to test it as well. Though they are presumably positive, it would be preferable to prove it: http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#PF49 But I have to ask, what is this "large population" that is DF29- and Z131-? I see only a handful. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 11:28 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] L1439 moves upstream but....... > > No; that would be a big mistake I believe. There is a very large population > of DF29- Z131- people in the database. You have no idea whether they are > L1439+ or L1439-. > > If you believe you do know what these DF29- Z131- people are for L1439, what > is it and why? > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Diana Gale Matthiesen > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 9:14 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] L1439 moves upstream but....... > > L1439 appears to be phyloequivalent to M253, so we can stop testing it. The > only clade left to seal the deal are the PF49+'s: > http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#PF49 > > If one of them tests positive for L1439, I can remove this SNP from the > matrix, > entirely. > > Diana > >

P30, P40, M307, just like L1439 and any other PRESENTLY phyloequivalent snps to M253 should not cease to be tested by the proven most upstream branches of the I1 tree. It's just the sad fact that they have not been, given that the tests have been available in the catalog for some time. With Chromo2, and even much more so if BigY works, we will be able to use the haplotypes from the most upstream branches of I1 to peel off some of the presently phyloequivalent snps of I1's M253, and maybe even M253 itself. And testing of the most upstream branches is where it matters. Phyloequivalence as seen from who has tested in the past does not indicate absolute or ultimate phyloequivalence. Many phyloequivalences have been broken by focused testing; we should expect the same for the bunch of M253 phyloequivalences. 1) I believe we have shown that the PF49+ population is downstream from DF29, being found in clade I1-ML which is DF29+. It is true we have no PF49 test yet for an AS2122 clade member; I'd love to see one. 2) I spelled out the population of DF29- Z131- earlier today. Two decent clades, a cluster, plus some generics. The clades are seen in "Tree for I1xZ58xL22" as AS1212 and AS121210 which are identified in "I1 modalities". My database count is 37 haplotypes. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Diana Gale Matthiesen Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 11:50 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] L1439 moves upstream but....... If L1439 turns out to be phyloequivalent to M253, we can stop testing it, just as we've stopped testing P30, P40, and its other equivalents. But as I show in the matrix, those who are DF29- and Z131- still need to test it (and PF49): http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#M253* It would be desirable for the those who are PF49+ to test it as well. Though they are presumably positive, it would be preferable to prove it: http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#PF49 But I have to ask, what is this "large population" that is DF29- and Z131-? I see only a handful. Diana > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 11:28 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] L1439 moves upstream but....... > > No; that would be a big mistake I believe. There is a very large > population > of DF29- Z131- people in the database. You have no idea whether they are > L1439+ or L1439-. > > If you believe you do know what these DF29- Z131- people are for L1439, > what > is it and why? > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Diana Gale Matthiesen > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 9:14 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] L1439 moves upstream but....... > > L1439 appears to be phyloequivalent to M253, so we can stop testing it. > The > only clade left to seal the deal are the PF49+'s: > http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#PF49 > > If one of them tests positive for L1439, I can remove this SNP from the > matrix, > entirely. > > Diana > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

> There is a very large population of DF29- Z131- people in the database. You have no idea whether they are > L1439+ or L1439-. Are all L22+ people also DF29+? > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 21:27:36 -0700 > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] L1439 moves upstream but....... > > No; that would be a big mistake I believe. There is a very large population > of DF29- Z131- people in the database. You have no idea whether they are > L1439+ or L1439-. > > If you believe you do know what these DF29- Z131- people are for L1439, what > is it and why? > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Diana Gale Matthiesen > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 9:14 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] L1439 moves upstream but....... > > L1439 appears to be phyloequivalent to M253, so we can stop testing it. The > only clade left to seal the deal are the PF49+'s: > http://dgmweb.net/DNA/matrices/HgI1/HgI1_matrix_M253.html#PF49 > > If one of them tests positive for L1439, I can remove this SNP from the > matrix, > entirely. > > Diana > > > > From: JB McCrummen > > Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 10:31 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] L1439 moves upstream but....... > > > > > > Thanks for your advice Ken. I will cancel the order. > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message