Hi Terry, Thank you very much for the great concept you have worked out. I needed some time to really digest it, and I found this concept can be very fruitful for our understanding how I1 grew from its roots. Some my comments: 1. I think that your idea to consider 4-5 STR markers as semi-equivalents of SNPs is great. It is something what reminds me on DYS388 and DYS455 which in the I1 haplogroup have very special and unchanging values, enabling to recognize correctly haplotypes belonging to this haplogroup (semi-equivalents of M253 among SNPs). 2. I think this is a complementary approach to the one of dr Nordtvedt. Almost all subclades you have discovered are significantly older than 4000 years. Most of the STR subclades of KN are younger than 4000 years. 3. Therefore, the question arises about the links between KN's STR subclades and yours. For example, I noticed that the KN's STR subclades of my highest interest: I1P (I1-ASP) and I1AS7E are contained mainly in your subclade ABA, and some of them by ABB (5550 years ago in Central Jutland and in North-Western Norway). Several members of the I1-T2 subclade I see as BAB and BAA (5000 years ago in Southern Finland). Do you see any possibility to analyze how the KN's subclades are rooted in your subclades? This would be very interesting. Perhaps, our image of the entire haplogroup would be more complete this way. 4. Another research possibility are the links between your subclades, and the set of (probably prehistoric) SNPs, like L22, but also Z58, Z63, Z131, L338, M227 etc. Perhaps, it is too early to do this, but I am excited about such possibility. Best, Marek Skarbek Kozietulski P.S. You mention R1b on your website - in the context of I1, but I have not found any comments on R1b in your text and on your maps. I am very interested in this topic. -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Terry Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 7:56 PM To: Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I@rootsweb.com; genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Tree reconstruction of I1 and I2 Using a sample of over two thousand STR haplotypes of people belonging to y-Haplogroups I1 and I2, I have constructed a tree of how those STR haplotypes are organised. Due to the randomness of mutations, such an STR tree is not expected to be exactly the same thing as the real genealogy. But it is a useful approximation. For the I1 and I2 Tree see the "UPDATE7: y-Haplogroups I1 and I2 Tree" section near the bottom of http://www.goggo.com/terry/HaplogroupI1/ That section includes a high-resolution PDF file of the reconstructed I1 and I2 Tree, plus a medium resolution image. Terry ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1872 / Virus Database: 2092/4621 - Release Date: 11/16/11