There are two large clades in I1d L22+ which should consider testing for L813 and L380 One has 13 at DYS464b. The fraction of 464 = 12-13-15-16 in I1d L22+ is much, much larger than that in I1xL22 The other clade in I1d L22+ could be called the I1d-NR clade (NR for north Russia) although it has a good number of Scandinavian and British Isles members, too. This clade is distinquished by its 13 at DYS392 and 24 at DYS447, large number of 19 at DYS448, and 12-15-16-16 at DYS464. This clade does not look young. KN