Sent from my LG phone Obed W Odom <owodom@mail.utexas.edu> wrote: >Ken, > >How can one distinguish between these 2 possibilities for AS2: > 1) AS2 is a relatively young clade, as judged by its apparently >recent tmrca >or > 2) AS2 is a part of a much older clade; namely, that part whose STR >pattern has changed little (through the luck of the draw) from the >pattern of the ancient common ancestor, while the STR pattern of the >majority of this clade (again by purely random means) has changed enough >that it no longer shows a close resemblance to the STR pattern of the >common ancestor? > >It seems to me that in either case AS2 would *appear* to have a recent >tmrca: in the first case because it actually does have a recent tmrca, >and in the second case because it has been *selected* from the ancient >clade precisely on the basis of a shared STR pattern, and the other >members of the ancient clade have thus been discarded from the tmrca >calculation. > >I'm having trouble seeing how these possibilities can be distinguished. > >On 12/16/2011 7:28 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: >> My interpretation, based on my old tmrca with AS2, and the young tmrca of >> AS2 itself, is that both lines after parting ways simply diverged as they >> will. I could not suggest yet what the haplotypes looked like at the >> beginning of Z139+. >> >> I see some commonalities among AS2, your haplotype, mine.... but it is not >> much to hang a hat on. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owodom@mail.utexas.edu >> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:07 PM >> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] AS2 - Z138+ >> >> Ray, >> >> Do I interpret your message correctly that you are I1-AS2 and are >> Z58+, Z139+, and Z138+? If so, that puts you (I1-AS2)and Ken and me >> (I1-AS-generic) in the same clade, as judged by SNPs. Do you agree, >> Ken? Could this mean that the Y-STR pattern of I1-AS2 is more similar >> to the pattern of our common ancestor, but that the Y-STR pattern of >> some of us I1-AS-generics has mutated enough that we can no longer be >> recognized by STRs but only by SNPs? >> > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message