That sure is interesting to find another one negative for all three. But by itself it is not what makes someone generic or non-generic. "generic" means I can't see the person's haplotype as part of a clade. They seem to go back to the founder of I1 as their first recognizable common ancestor. But I notice that in my 68-111 markers collection I have this Bowman in a cluster with 25 at 714 and 18 at 650. Those are not rare values, just off modal one step. But I'll keep my eye on the cluster. WE're not getting the Z information in very large quantity from FTDNA, unfortunately. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Phil Alfeld Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 6:02 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps The tests were completed. My cousin is Z58-/Z63-/Z131- Does this take Bowman out of generic? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Phil Alfeld [mailto:palfeld@skndlaw.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 11:25 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps Thanks. I ordered those tests from FTDNA, although the personal page says no tests are pending. I've emailed FTDNA for a status report. Thanks again. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt [mailto:knordtvedt@bresnan.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 11:04 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps The Bowman/Lowe/Nevader haplotype I have in the I1generic collection. There is no way to know where it would be on the Z-series snp based tree without him doing Z58/Z63/Z131 discrimination. The generics are splitting up to be sprinkled on most all the main branches. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Phil Alfeld Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:49 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps Where does my Bowman cousin place in this tree? His ysearch ID is GRDX4. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt [mailto:knordtvedt@bresnan.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 3:35 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com; genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps Because of the fast breaking developments in I1 due to the Z series snps, I have put up a tree for I1 at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net “Tree for I1” This will be updated from time to time as information is developing rapidly. Ken ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ken, are you and I the only generic I1's who have tested positive for Z-138 and Z-139 so far? If these SNP's are ancestral in a significant portion (or would it need to be a majority?) of generic I1's, it seems to me that you and I would by definition no longer be in the generic category, and this would be a case where classification by SNP has trumped classification by STR. On 12/5/2011 10:16 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > That sure is interesting to find another one negative for all three. But by > itself it is not what makes someone generic or non-generic. "generic" means > I can't see the person's haplotype as part of a clade. They seem to go back > to the founder of I1 as their first recognizable common ancestor. But I > notice that in my 68-111 markers collection I have this Bowman in a cluster > with 25 at 714 and 18 at 650. Those are not rare values, just off modal one > step. But > I'll keep my eye on the cluster. > > WE're not getting the Z information in very large quantity from FTDNA, > unfortunately. > > Ken

Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt [mailto:knordtvedt@bresnan.net] Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 10:17 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps That sure is interesting to find another one negative for all three. But by itself it is not what makes someone generic or non-generic. "generic" means I can't see the person's haplotype as part of a clade. They seem to go back to the founder of I1 as their first recognizable common ancestor. But I notice that in my 68-111 markers collection I have this Bowman in a cluster with 25 at 714 and 18 at 650. Those are not rare values, just off modal one step. But I'll keep my eye on the cluster. WE're not getting the Z information in very large quantity from FTDNA, unfortunately. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Phil Alfeld Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 6:02 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps The tests were completed. My cousin is Z58-/Z63-/Z131- Does this take Bowman out of generic? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Phil Alfeld [mailto:palfeld@skndlaw.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 11:25 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps Thanks. I ordered those tests from FTDNA, although the personal page says no tests are pending. I've emailed FTDNA for a status report. Thanks again. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt [mailto:knordtvedt@bresnan.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 11:04 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps The Bowman/Lowe/Nevader haplotype I have in the I1generic collection. There is no way to know where it would be on the Z-series snp based tree without him doing Z58/Z63/Z131 discrimination. The generics are splitting up to be sprinkled on most all the main branches. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Phil Alfeld Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:49 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps Where does my Bowman cousin place in this tree? His ysearch ID is GRDX4. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt [mailto:knordtvedt@bresnan.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 3:35 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com; genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps Because of the fast breaking developments in I1 due to the Z series snps, I have put up a tree for I1 at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net “Tree for I1” This will be updated from time to time as information is developing rapidly. Ken ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message