My FGC results have CTS8394+/Z2818 in the vicinity of S64+/L124 and S62+/L121. On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Obed W Odom <owodom@utexas.edu> wrote: > It looks like most of I1, including I1-Z131 and I1-DF29, has this G to A > mutation, but several I2 samples in the 1000 Genomes project do not have > it. > > > > > > > > Where does CTS8394 sit in the I1 tree? > > > > > > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Itai Perez has a Geno 2.0 file that is CTS8394+: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2012-12/1355262403 Kit 268531 is CTS8394+. He is in the Howell project: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/howell/default.aspx John O'Grady > > Where does CTS8394 sit in the I1 tree? > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt

Where does CTS8394 sit in the I1 tree? Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net

As Kenneth mentioned this morning, I think most of us are looking forward to testing SNPs entering the historical or genealogical era and, from my correspondence with FTDNA's lab, it's sounding like it's going to be difficult or impossible to get them to list many of those SNPs as individual order SNPs. I haven't heard that any companies are really willing to make an effort at that and do a really good job of it, so I ordered my YSeq sample kit yesterday and it was completely painless and only $8 ($3 kit + $5 shipping): http://shop.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=225 -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Wayne R. Roberts Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 6:26 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Two I1 sectors, L338 and Z138, have new snps for sale I think it is important to remember that should people choose to test an SNP with Yseq, they need to ask for a sampling kit to be sent to them, then send back a sample for testing. This could take some weeks depending on which country people live. I do not think most people would like their remaining samples at FTDNA to be transferred over to Yseq though I think this is an option that is available, I may be wrong. Also your result at one company is not transferable to another company. I'm not saying don't test with this one or that one or both, just to be aware of possible issues. On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 3:32 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > I think you are perhaps missing your coffee this morning? Rules are > not to quote prices. I did not. I do not get royalties from anyone; > I hardly get interest from my bank on savings account. > > If Didier is to intervene, I would think it would be concerning your > highly personalized complaining about me. > > It is an important fact for hobbyists to learn that so far yseq has > given customers test results for ysnps much faster than the other company. > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: nicolas.taban > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:01 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Two I1 sectors, L338 and Z138, have new snps > for sale > > I am sorry but with all respect to both you Ken and Yseq, I feel you > are going too far now. > These messages give me the impression your getting royalties for each > time you write Yseq. > I guess Didier should have already intervened. > > I share your frustration with FTDNA, but please keep to the good hobby > jobb you are otherwise doing. > > Ps: to be complete, may be you should mention that in order to propose > a new SNP to Yseq, one has to pay a 1$ fee. > > > Mvh/Regards > > Nicolas Taban > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> > Date:27/05/2014 17:26 (GMT+01:00) > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Two I1 sectors, L338 and Z138, have new snps for > sale > > It is so refreshing to see the quick response time of www.yseq.net so > far for individual ysnp orders. Hope this continues. > FTDNA seems to continue its agonizing long delays in doing ysnp tests > of either kind, individual or group. > > The two BigY trees, “BigYtree-Z138” and “BigYtree-L338 AS1” in I1, > found at my websites link below, have a good number of green snps > indicated. These are downstream snps from BigY which www.yseq.net > will test individually for a decent price. > > If your dna haplotype suggests you are close to either of these tree > regions, I recommend ordering some of these downstream snps. In both > these sectors we are entering the historical or genealogical era. > > If you see ysnps in these trees not yet green but which you think > would be informative for you, ask www.yseq.net if they will add them > to their catalog. Send them y location number (most important) and > “name” if it has one. > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Wayne; I really think those are trivial points, but yes, all should be aware of every fine point. The readiness and speed that yseq is responding concerning making new snps available for testing individually is a giant fresh breeze in the hobby. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Wayne R. Roberts Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 5:25 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Two I1 sectors, L338 and Z138, have new snps for sale I think it is important to remember that should people choose to test an SNP with Yseq, they need to ask for a sampling kit to be sent to them, then send back a sample for testing. This could take some weeks depending on which country people live. I do not think most people would like their remaining samples at FTDNA to be transferred over to Yseq though I think this is an option that is available, I may be wrong. Also your result at one company is not transferable to another company. I'm not saying don't test with this one or that one or both, just to be aware of possible issues. On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 3:32 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > I think you are perhaps missing your coffee this morning? Rules are not > to > quote prices. I did not. I do not get royalties from anyone; I hardly > get > interest from my bank on savings account. > > If Didier is to intervene, I would think it would be concerning your > highly > personalized complaining about me. > > It is an important fact for hobbyists to learn that so far yseq has given > customers test results for ysnps much faster than the other company. > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: nicolas.taban > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:01 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Two I1 sectors, L338 and Z138, have new snps for > sale > > I am sorry but with all respect to both you Ken and Yseq, I feel you are > going too far now. > These messages give me the impression your getting royalties for each time > you write Yseq. > I guess Didier should have already intervened. > > I share your frustration with FTDNA, but please keep to the good hobby > jobb > you are otherwise doing. > > Ps: to be complete, may be you should mention that in order to propose a > new > SNP to Yseq, one has to pay a 1$ fee. > > > Mvh/Regards > > Nicolas Taban > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> > Date:27/05/2014 17:26 (GMT+01:00) > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Two I1 sectors, L338 and Z138, have new snps for sale > > It is so refreshing to see the quick response time of www.yseq.net so far > for individual ysnp orders. Hope this continues. > FTDNA seems to continue its agonizing long delays in doing ysnp tests of > either kind, individual or group. > > The two BigY trees, “BigYtree-Z138” and “BigYtree-L338 AS1” in I1, found > at > my websites link below, have a good number of green snps indicated. These > are downstream snps from BigY which www.yseq.net will test individually > for > a decent price. > > If your dna haplotype suggests you are close to either of these tree > regions, I recommend ordering some of these downstream snps. In both > these > sectors we are entering the historical or genealogical era. > > If you see ysnps in these trees not yet green but which you think would be > informative for you, ask www.yseq.net if they will add them to their > catalog. Send them y location number (most important) and “name” if it > has > one. > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I don't understand your post? YSEQ is a company willing to make these downstream snps purchasable individually. And so far they are getting results promptly. I think issues of transferability are trivial. It is we who want our results and this world which is becoming extremely public allows us to easily share our information with anyone we choose who is interested. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Scott E. Stewart Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 6:03 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Two I1 sectors, L338 and Z138, have new snps for sale As Kenneth mentioned this morning, I think most of us are looking forward to testing SNPs entering the historical or genealogical era and, from my correspondence with FTDNA's lab, it's sounding like it's going to be difficult or impossible to get them to list many of those SNPs as individual order SNPs. I haven't heard that any companies are really willing to make an effort at that and do a really good job of it, so I ordered my YSeq sample kit yesterday and it was completely painless and only $8 ($3 kit + $5 shipping): http://shop.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=225 -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Wayne R. Roberts Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 6:26 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Two I1 sectors, L338 and Z138, have new snps for sale I think it is important to remember that should people choose to test an SNP with Yseq, they need to ask for a sampling kit to be sent to them, then send back a sample for testing. This could take some weeks depending on which country people live. I do not think most people would like their remaining samples at FTDNA to be transferred over to Yseq though I think this is an option that is available, I may be wrong. Also your result at one company is not transferable to another company. I'm not saying don't test with this one or that one or both, just to be aware of possible issues. On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 3:32 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > I think you are perhaps missing your coffee this morning? Rules are > not to quote prices. I did not. I do not get royalties from anyone; > I hardly get interest from my bank on savings account. > > If Didier is to intervene, I would think it would be concerning your > highly personalized complaining about me. > > It is an important fact for hobbyists to learn that so far yseq has > given customers test results for ysnps much faster than the other > company. > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: nicolas.taban > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:01 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Two I1 sectors, L338 and Z138, have new snps > for sale > > I am sorry but with all respect to both you Ken and Yseq, I feel you > are going too far now. > These messages give me the impression your getting royalties for each > time you write Yseq. > I guess Didier should have already intervened. > > I share your frustration with FTDNA, but please keep to the good hobby > jobb you are otherwise doing. > > Ps: to be complete, may be you should mention that in order to propose > a new SNP to Yseq, one has to pay a 1$ fee. > > > Mvh/Regards > > Nicolas Taban > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> > Date:27/05/2014 17:26 (GMT+01:00) > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Two I1 sectors, L338 and Z138, have new snps for > sale > > It is so refreshing to see the quick response time of www.yseq.net so > far for individual ysnp orders. Hope this continues. > FTDNA seems to continue its agonizing long delays in doing ysnp tests > of either kind, individual or group. > > The two BigY trees, “BigYtree-Z138” and “BigYtree-L338 AS1” in I1, > found at my websites link below, have a good number of green snps > indicated. These are downstream snps from BigY which www.yseq.net > will test individually for a decent price. > > If your dna haplotype suggests you are close to either of these tree > regions, I recommend ordering some of these downstream snps. In both > these sectors we are entering the historical or genealogical era. > > If you see ysnps in these trees not yet green but which you think > would be informative for you, ask www.yseq.net if they will add them > to their catalog. Send them y location number (most important) and > “name” if it has one. > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am sorry but with all respect to both you Ken and Yseq, I feel you are going too far now. These messages give me the impression your getting royalties for each time you write Yseq. I guess Didier should have already intervened. I share your frustration with FTDNA, but please keep to the good hobby jobb you are otherwise doing. Ps: to be complete, may be you should mention that in order to propose a new SNP to Yseq, one has to pay a 1$ fee. Mvh/Regards Nicolas Taban -------- Original message -------- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> Date:27/05/2014 17:26 (GMT+01:00) To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Two I1 sectors, L338 and Z138, have new snps for sale It is so refreshing to see the quick response time of www.yseq.net so far for individual ysnp orders. Hope this continues. FTDNA seems to continue its agonizing long delays in doing ysnp tests of either kind, individual or group. The two BigY trees, “BigYtree-Z138” and “BigYtree-L338 AS1” in I1, found at my websites link below, have a good number of green snps indicated. These are downstream snps from BigY which www.yseq.net will test individually for a decent price. If your dna haplotype suggests you are close to either of these tree regions, I recommend ordering some of these downstream snps. In both these sectors we are entering the historical or genealogical era. If you see ysnps in these trees not yet green but which you think would be informative for you, ask www.yseq.net if they will add them to their catalog. Send them y location number (most important) and “name” if it has one. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

As an administrator I 'll not ban this thread although clearly outside the scope of the list. We have very few such wrong directed post and I believe some members can help on this question.   My take is tha L1b is "rare" only among european people. I don't know if you are aware that this means you have a clear african ancestry in your maternal lineage. The are plenty L1b people in central Africa. The interesting point is to date the origin of this african lineage in your family.   Didier Vernade   (I realize that you may have mix the I with a "L" - this list is for "i" haplogroup for Y chrmosome - not L for mitochondrial DNA - but as I said : no problem !) > > Can someone give me insight to the Revised Reference Cambridge Sequence? I manually posted my DNA results to Ancestry.com and my results indicate I'm an exact match. It appears less than 5% of people tested belong to this group. In layman's terms, what does this mean and how can it assist me genealogy research? My Haplo group is L1b. > > Thanks, > > Mike >

Hi Richard Thanks so much for your explanation of the testing and filtering process. Very much appreciated! <<Both companies, FTDNA and YFull, are using precisely the same raw data and coverage that is provided in the BAM file to determine any new SNPs. The fact that FTDNA did not report any of your 15 BIG Y testers as being derived for the variant 14888161 is likely be due to the small number of reads obtained (1 to 3). Anything under 55-80 reads at a position is insufficient for the FTDNA filter criteria to call a variant with any level of confidence. Whereas it could be a legitimate SNP and they would miss it by application of their quality filter. It appears that YFull has applied a different algorithm to the same data and has been able to be assured that even given only 3 reads (or even 1) they feel confident that this is a valid SNP. The fact that they chose to name it Y3239 would indicate they are convinced it is not an erroneous base call. >> I am so pleased we opted to have YFull analyse our 15 x L803 BAM files Richard. I believe we would have missed out on so much if we hadn’t...including all of the additional STRs! Interestingly, I found that FTDNA report some novel variants with low reads, well under the 55 – 80 reads that you mention. FTDNA only reported two of our L803 kits: 136903 and 76423 as being derived for the novel variant 7519928. YFull named this new SNP Y3456. At the YFull website I am able to determine that: Kit 136903 / YF01597 had 32 reads = 32G A > G Kit 76423 / YF01495 only had 10 reads (10 reads = 10G A > G) yet was still reported derived by FTDNA. Going by their Tree, YFull finds an additional two of our L803 Big Y testers positive for this new SNP but so far I can only check the number of reads for one. This man, Kit 227254 / YF01598, actually had 6 reads at 7519928 (6G A > G ) yet he was filtered out at FTDNA. So maybe FTDNA filter out anything under 10 reads? Just on the numbers from my L802 brother’s BAM file, YFull shows he was positive for 1360 SNPs, had No Calls for 14206 and 244 were Ambiguous. He also has a Best Quality private SNP at 21070711 (YFS099079) - he doesn’t mind me disclosing that info. For now, all I can say re our other L803 Big Y testers is that quite a number of them have new private SNPs and Indels. They may be very useful in the years ahead. Thanks again for your comments, Richard. I will keep pursuing this! Kindest regards Julie Frame Falk From: DNAresults Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 5:37 AM To: Julie Frame Falk ; y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] YFull Interpretation - new branches in I1-L803 Y3239 (14888161) Hi Julie, You wrote: “Family Tree DNA did not report any of our 15 Big Y testers as being derived for the novel variant 14888161. However, when the YFull Team analysed the BAMs they identified four L803 men with reads at this position. YFull named the new SNP Y3239.” …. “There are other L803 members in the Project who did not test Big Y that might also benefit if they could test Y3239 (14888161) – however, what would be my chances of requesting FTDNA to add this SNP to their catalogue when it didn’t even get reported for some of these L803s as a Big Y novel variant? I am a bit bewildered by this situation.” Nice job, by the way, correlating your members and on what appears to be a new branch based on the new SNPs you have found. Below, I would like to respond to the bewilderment you expressed. Obviously, what I am saying to you is only my opinion as I do not have any direct one-to-one information from FTDNA or YFull that substantiates the following remarks. Both companies, FTDNA and YFull, are using precisely the same raw data and coverage that is provided in the BAM file to determine any new SNPs. The fact that FTDNA did not report any of your 15 BIG Y testers as being derived for the variant 14888161 is likely be due to the small number of reads obtained (1 to 3). Anything under 55-80 reads at a position is insufficient for the FTDNA filter criteria to call a variant with any level of confidence. Whereas it could be a legitimate SNP and they would miss it by application of their quality filter. It appears that YFull has applied a different algorithm to the same data and has been able to be assured that even given only 3 reads (or even 1) they feel confident that this is a valid SNP. The fact that they chose to name it Y3239 would indicate they are convinced it is not an erroneous base call. As I indicated on this list on April 16 under, “Some Comments on the BIG Y VCF file information” A major limitation of high-throughput DNA sequencing is the high rate of erroneous base calls produced. For instance, Illumina sequencing machines produce errors at a rate of ∼0.1–1 × 10−2 per base sequenced. Erroneous base calls can be largely mitigated by establishing a consensus sequence from high-coverage sequencing reads. FTDNA indicates that the BIG Y coverage is from 55X to 80X, meaning the number of times the Illumina machines read the sequence. Each base read is scored by a quality estimate (reported in the VCF file under QUAL for the alternate allele value) given by Q = -10 Log (p) where p = the error probability for the base. For example if p = 0.01 (1% chance of error) then Q = 20. Quality scores estimate the quality of the consensus sequence. For example at 7X coverage of a particular location we might find a variety of base quality ratings (Q) for the call of either A or G: A(Q35), A (Q45), A(Q40), G(Q4), G(Q12), G(Q12), G(Q6), G(Q8) Which is more likely to be the right call at this position, A or G? In your case the importance of the number of reads criteria to you is that, at risk of missing a valid SNP, FTDNA is choosing to filter out variants that have such few reads (only from 1 to 3 reads) as yours for 14888161, in order to be certain that the ones they do call are in fact legitimate with a high level of confidence. In order to request FTDNA add this SNP to their catalogue when it didn’t even get reported for some of these L803s as a Big Y novel variant, I think you would need to provide convincing evidence that the SNP called by YFull is valid and not an erroneous machine base call. To do that I think the best way to proceed is to have some of your members submit a sample to test that position at Thomas Krahn’s YSEQ company where he uses the (Gold Standard) SANGER method of testing that location. Thomas can advise you whether or not he wishes to test that position based on the 1 to 3 reads produced by BIG Y in the raw data of the BAM file that has been called valid by YFull. If Thomas uses the Sanger method to validate the SNP then you could request FTDNA to add it to the list of SNPs available to test by other members of your group without having to resupply a test sample. You might also want to check with YFull to see what they say as to why they are confident enough to claim a new SNP at that position, and name it, based on only 1 to 3 reads in the high-throughput sequence procedure used by BIGY. How have they determined it is not an erroneous call? I believe that you very likely have indeed found a valid SNP via the YFull analysis and that it is an important branch in your L803 line, so you should pursue it. Hope this helps to at least provide some rationale for the difference between FTDNA not calling a Novel Variant at 14888161 and the findings reported by YFull. Regards, Richard Brewer On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 4:00 AM, Julie Frame Falk <jdf4072@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Lists Many thanks to the YFull team for their wonderful interpretation service. Some kits have not had processing finalised as yet, but the YFull Experimental Tree suggests it might be timely for me to post an update for the I1-L803 sector. Thus far, nine of our 15 Big Y testers are members of the I1-Z60 project at YFull. Herewith a link to a chart showing the new branches downstream of I1-L803 as determined by the YFull Team: https://app.box.com/s/w9qhdt8b1hxaas37cqwp I have added some notes to the chart to show most distant ancestor timeframe and geographical locations, but will mention an important point here as well: Family Tree DNA did not report any of our 15 Big Y testers as being derived for the novel variant 14888161. However, when the YFull Team analysed the BAMs they identified four L803 men with reads at this position. YFull named the new SNP Y3239. The read details at 14888161 are as follows: Kit 181118 / YF01508: 3 reads = 3T: C>T Kit 150485 / YF01541: 3 reads = 3T: C>T Kit 136903 / YF01597: 2 reads = 2T: C>T Kit 84205 / YF01603: 1 read = 1T: C>T As can be seen on the chart, and despite the scant number of reads, Y3239 (14888161) appears to be an important gateway SNP to further branches downstream. Unfortunately, with the ‘no reads’ at this position, we cannot determine if Hamilton 8048 / YF01507, Scruggs 16435 / YF01547, and Frame 110238 / YF01617 are L803* or Y3239* (another Hamilton C kit is waiting for a BAM). Has anyone else faced this situation? If so, would FTDNA likely be open to rechecking these kits at 14888161? I don’t have any idea of the the Lab process so this may not be feasible, but I sure would like something definite rather than being left with this ambiguity. There are other L803 members in the Project who did not test Big Y that might also benefit if they could test Y3239 (14888161) – however, what would be my chances of requesting FTDNA to add this SNP to their catalogue when it didn’t even get reported for some of these L803s as a Big Y novel variant? I am a bit bewildered by this situation. The other branch below L803 is L802 – both of these SNPs discovered in Kit 64529’s WTY. Now with Big Y we have another branch parallel to L802 (Y3239) that seems to be taking in many of the L803 families. The maximum GD between any L803 men is 18 at 111 markers – one L802+ and the other Y3239+. I highlighted them with red arrows on the chart. Interestingly, there is only GD 3 between the other L802 and the family of a Y3238 man – also shown with red arrows. Huge variation. Once again, my sincere appreciation to the YFull Team. Kind regards Julie Frame Falk (Admin) Frame / Freame / Fremault DNA Project ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I think you are perhaps missing your coffee this morning? Rules are not to quote prices. I did not. I do not get royalties from anyone; I hardly get interest from my bank on savings account. If Didier is to intervene, I would think it would be concerning your highly personalized complaining about me. It is an important fact for hobbyists to learn that so far yseq has given customers test results for ysnps much faster than the other company. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: nicolas.taban Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:01 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Two I1 sectors, L338 and Z138, have new snps for sale I am sorry but with all respect to both you Ken and Yseq, I feel you are going too far now. These messages give me the impression your getting royalties for each time you write Yseq. I guess Didier should have already intervened. I share your frustration with FTDNA, but please keep to the good hobby jobb you are otherwise doing. Ps: to be complete, may be you should mention that in order to propose a new SNP to Yseq, one has to pay a 1$ fee. Mvh/Regards Nicolas Taban -------- Original message -------- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> Date:27/05/2014 17:26 (GMT+01:00) To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Two I1 sectors, L338 and Z138, have new snps for sale It is so refreshing to see the quick response time of www.yseq.net so far for individual ysnp orders. Hope this continues. FTDNA seems to continue its agonizing long delays in doing ysnp tests of either kind, individual or group. The two BigY trees, “BigYtree-Z138” and “BigYtree-L338 AS1” in I1, found at my websites link below, have a good number of green snps indicated. These are downstream snps from BigY which www.yseq.net will test individually for a decent price. If your dna haplotype suggests you are close to either of these tree regions, I recommend ordering some of these downstream snps. In both these sectors we are entering the historical or genealogical era. If you see ysnps in these trees not yet green but which you think would be informative for you, ask www.yseq.net if they will add them to their catalog. Send them y location number (most important) and “name” if it has one. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Ken Yes, thankfully four people did have coverage at 14888161 and they were distributed across several of our L803 subgroups. We had a good representation in Big Y from our small project. I am delighted that we have been able to split L803 further. In fact the L802 branch now looks quite lonely with so many others coming under the new Y3239 (14888161) branch. This is a link to the Haplogroup I page of the YFull Experimental Tree: http://www.yfull.com/tree/I/ . 14 of our 15 L803 Big Y testers (with YF0... IDs) can be seen on the I-L803 sector of the YFull tree. I am going to write to FTDNA today to see is anything can be done about getting a reading at 14888161 for the three kits: Hamilton 8048, Scruggs 16435 and Frame 110238. If not, I will contact Dr Krahn. It seems too important to not follow up. We already knew that these three were L802-, but it is still possible that they may be derived for Y3239 (14888161). At this stage it looks like their terminal SNPs are going to be either L803* or Y3239*. Kind regards Julie -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 12:54 AM To: Julie Frame Falk ; y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] YFull Interpretation - new branches in I1-L803 Forgot the punch line; you can check the coverage for your L803 people to see first hand if they covered that site for them? Oh, I see, four of the L803 people apparently had coverage there? Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Julie Frame Falk Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 5:00 AM To: I1-Z58andZ63 Project ; Y-DNA Haplogroup I Subject: [yDNAhgI] YFull Interpretation - new branches in I1-L803 Dear Lists Many thanks to the YFull team for their wonderful interpretation service. Some kits have not had processing finalised as yet, but the YFull Experimental Tree suggests it might be timely for me to post an update for the I1-L803 sector. Thus far, nine of our 15 Big Y testers are members of the I1-Z60 project at YFull. Herewith a link to a chart showing the new branches downstream of I1-L803 as determined by the YFull Team: https://app.box.com/s/w9qhdt8b1hxaas37cqwp I have added some notes to the chart to show most distant ancestor timeframe and geographical locations, but will mention an important point here as well: Family Tree DNA did not report any of our 15 Big Y testers as being derived for the novel variant 14888161. However, when the YFull Team analysed the BAMs they identified four L803 men with reads at this position. YFull named the new SNP Y3239. The read details at 14888161 are as follows: Kit 181118 / YF01508: 3 reads = 3T: C>T Kit 150485 / YF01541: 3 reads = 3T: C>T Kit 136903 / YF01597: 2 reads = 2T: C>T Kit 84205 / YF01603: 1 read = 1T: C>T As can be seen on the chart, and despite the scant number of reads, Y3239 (14888161) appears to be an important gateway SNP to further branches downstream. Unfortunately, with the ‘no reads’ at this position, we cannot determine if Hamilton 8048 / YF01507, Scruggs 16435 / YF01547, and Frame 110238 / YF01617 are L803* or Y3239* (another Hamilton C kit is waiting for a BAM). Has anyone else faced this situation? If so, would FTDNA likely be open to rechecking these kits at 14888161? I don’t have any idea of the the Lab process so this may not be feasible, but I sure would like something definite rather than being left with this ambiguity. There are other L803 members in the Project who did not test Big Y that might also benefit if they could test Y3239 (14888161) – however, what would be my chances of requesting FTDNA to add this SNP to their catalogue when it didn’t even get reported for some of these L803s as a Big Y novel variant? I am a bit bewildered by this situation. The other branch below L803 is L802 – both of these SNPs discovered in Kit 64529’s WTY. Now with Big Y we have another branch parallel to L802 (Y3239) that seems to be taking in many of the L803 families. The maximum GD between any L803 men is 18 at 111 markers – one L802+ and the other Y3239+. I highlighted them with red arrows on the chart. Interestingly, there is only GD 3 between the other L802 and the family of a Y3238 man – also shown with red arrows. Huge variation. Once again, my sincere appreciation to the YFull Team. Kind regards Julie Frame Falk (Admin) Frame / Freame / Fremault DNA Project ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hummm, okay. Perhaps you can advise me which of the letters on the right hand side correspond to Christie/Hansen kit 226867? On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > All individual downstream weeded NVs are now included in BigYtree-P109 > > All hell breaks loose when the next P109 result comes forth. > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 2:10 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > Nicolas, Thank you for the S series identifications and position > correction > for S25633 > > > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nicolas Taban > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 1:19 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > Ken I saw your update today. > Despite I tend to agree that position would be more precise, they are also > more difficult to read and remember (a combination of letters and numbers > seems easier for the brain). > > So please note that: > 8112824 = S11056 > 22802502 = S7660 > > Also, I do not understand why you have 23486236 = S25633 in this place as > we > are all positive to it. > Have you had a look to the slide I sent you (also available on the I1 > facebook group)? The main structure of the I-P109 subtree is already there > joining both Chromo2 and BigY results (without all the private SNPs). > > Regards, > Nicolas Taban > > > From: knordtvedt@bresnan.net > > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 08:01:49 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > > > > > > > > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nicolas Taban > > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 6:36 AM > > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > > > You seem to exclude position 17819410 that I previously asked to be > > seeded. > > It regroups (in your slide) "Ca", "R", "Cr" and "A". Have you seeded it > > and > > concluded that it was not a reliable position? > > > > [[Yes, indeed it does survive weeding and unites those four. I just > missed > > it. As is pretty clear, P109 tree is preliminary; it does not include > > unique NVs for many individuals yet. KN]] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

It is so refreshing to see the quick response time of www.yseq.net so far for individual ysnp orders. Hope this continues. FTDNA seems to continue its agonizing long delays in doing ysnp tests of either kind, individual or group. The two BigY trees, “BigYtree-Z138” and “BigYtree-L338 AS1” in I1, found at my websites link below, have a good number of green snps indicated. These are downstream snps from BigY which www.yseq.net will test individually for a decent price. If your dna haplotype suggests you are close to either of these tree regions, I recommend ordering some of these downstream snps. In both these sectors we are entering the historical or genealogical era. If you see ysnps in these trees not yet green but which you think would be informative for you, ask www.yseq.net if they will add them to their catalog. Send them y location number (most important) and “name” if it has one. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net

Yes, D is Djukic. Sil is Silva, I believe. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Stevan Damjanović Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 12:38 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree Can it be safely assumed that "D" is Djukic (FTDNA kit No: 187930)? Also, who is "Sil"? Thanks, Stevan 2014-05-27 2:26 GMT+02:00 Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>: > I believe that will the the C by the T. > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne R. Roberts > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 5:27 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > Hummm, okay. Perhaps you can advise me which of the letters on the right > hand side correspond to Christie/Hansen kit 226867? > > > On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt > <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > > > All individual downstream weeded NVs are now included in BigYtree-P109 > > > > All hell breaks loose when the next P109 result comes forth. > > > > > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 2:10 PM > > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > > > Nicolas, Thank you for the S series identifications and position > > correction > > for S25633 > > > > > > > > > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nicolas Taban > > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 1:19 PM > > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > > > Ken I saw your update today. > > Despite I tend to agree that position would be more precise, they are > also > > more difficult to read and remember (a combination of letters and > > numbers > > seems easier for the brain). > > > > So please note that: > > 8112824 = S11056 > > 22802502 = S7660 > > > > Also, I do not understand why you have 23486236 = S25633 in this place > > as > > we > > are all positive to it. > > Have you had a look to the slide I sent you (also available on the I1 > > facebook group)? The main structure of the I-P109 subtree is already > there > > joining both Chromo2 and BigY results (without all the private SNPs). > > > > Regards, > > Nicolas Taban > > > > > From: knordtvedt@bresnan.net > > > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 08:01:49 -0600 > > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > > > > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > > > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Nicolas Taban > > > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 6:36 AM > > > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > > > > > You seem to exclude position 17819410 that I previously asked to be > > > seeded. > > > It regroups (in your slide) "Ca", "R", "Cr" and "A". Have you seeded > > > it > > > and > > > concluded that it was not a reliable position? > > > > > > [[Yes, indeed it does survive weeding and unites those four. I just > > missed > > > it. As is pretty clear, P109 tree is preliminary; it does not include > > > unique NVs for many individuals yet. KN]] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Can it be safely assumed that "D" is Djukic (FTDNA kit No: 187930)? Also, who is "Sil"? Thanks, Stevan 2014-05-27 2:26 GMT+02:00 Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>: > I believe that will the the C by the T. > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne R. Roberts > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 5:27 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > Hummm, okay. Perhaps you can advise me which of the letters on the right > hand side correspond to Christie/Hansen kit 226867? > > > On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt > <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > > > All individual downstream weeded NVs are now included in BigYtree-P109 > > > > All hell breaks loose when the next P109 result comes forth. > > > > > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 2:10 PM > > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > > > Nicolas, Thank you for the S series identifications and position > > correction > > for S25633 > > > > > > > > > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nicolas Taban > > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 1:19 PM > > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > > > Ken I saw your update today. > > Despite I tend to agree that position would be more precise, they are > also > > more difficult to read and remember (a combination of letters and numbers > > seems easier for the brain). > > > > So please note that: > > 8112824 = S11056 > > 22802502 = S7660 > > > > Also, I do not understand why you have 23486236 = S25633 in this place as > > we > > are all positive to it. > > Have you had a look to the slide I sent you (also available on the I1 > > facebook group)? The main structure of the I-P109 subtree is already > there > > joining both Chromo2 and BigY results (without all the private SNPs). > > > > Regards, > > Nicolas Taban > > > > > From: knordtvedt@bresnan.net > > > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > > Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 08:01:49 -0600 > > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > > > > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > > > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Nicolas Taban > > > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 6:36 AM > > > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > > > > > You seem to exclude position 17819410 that I previously asked to be > > > seeded. > > > It regroups (in your slide) "Ca", "R", "Cr" and "A". Have you seeded it > > > and > > > concluded that it was not a reliable position? > > > > > > [[Yes, indeed it does survive weeding and unites those four. I just > > missed > > > it. As is pretty clear, P109 tree is preliminary; it does not include > > > unique NVs for many individuals yet. KN]] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Ken I saw your update today. Despite I tend to agree that position would be more precise, they are also more difficult to read and remember (a combination of letters and numbers seems easier for the brain). So please note that: 8112824 = S11056 22802502 = S7660 Also, I do not understand why you have 23486236 = S25633 in this place as we are all positive to it. Have you had a look to the slide I sent you (also available on the I1 facebook group)? The main structure of the I-P109 subtree is already there joining both Chromo2 and BigY results (without all the private SNPs). Regards, Nicolas Taban > From: knordtvedt@bresnan.net > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 08:01:49 -0600 > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nicolas Taban > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 6:36 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > You seem to exclude position 17819410 that I previously asked to be seeded. > It regroups (in your slide) "Ca", "R", "Cr" and "A". Have you seeded it and > concluded that it was not a reliable position? > > [[Yes, indeed it does survive weeding and unites those four. I just missed > it. As is pretty clear, P109 tree is preliminary; it does not include > unique NVs for many individuals yet. KN]] > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Lists Many thanks to the YFull team for their wonderful interpretation service. Some kits have not had processing finalised as yet, but the YFull Experimental Tree suggests it might be timely for me to post an update for the I1-L803 sector. Thus far, nine of our 15 Big Y testers are members of the I1-Z60 project at YFull. Herewith a link to a chart showing the new branches downstream of I1-L803 as determined by the YFull Team: https://app.box.com/s/w9qhdt8b1hxaas37cqwp I have added some notes to the chart to show most distant ancestor timeframe and geographical locations, but will mention an important point here as well: Family Tree DNA did not report any of our 15 Big Y testers as being derived for the novel variant 14888161. However, when the YFull Team analysed the BAMs they identified four L803 men with reads at this position. YFull named the new SNP Y3239. The read details at 14888161 are as follows: Kit 181118 / YF01508: 3 reads = 3T: C>T Kit 150485 / YF01541: 3 reads = 3T: C>T Kit 136903 / YF01597: 2 reads = 2T: C>T Kit 84205 / YF01603: 1 read = 1T: C>T As can be seen on the chart, and despite the scant number of reads, Y3239 (14888161) appears to be an important gateway SNP to further branches downstream. Unfortunately, with the ‘no reads’ at this position, we cannot determine if Hamilton 8048 / YF01507, Scruggs 16435 / YF01547, and Frame 110238 / YF01617 are L803* or Y3239* (another Hamilton C kit is waiting for a BAM). Has anyone else faced this situation? If so, would FTDNA likely be open to rechecking these kits at 14888161? I don’t have any idea of the the Lab process so this may not be feasible, but I sure would like something definite rather than being left with this ambiguity. There are other L803 members in the Project who did not test Big Y that might also benefit if they could test Y3239 (14888161) – however, what would be my chances of requesting FTDNA to add this SNP to their catalogue when it didn’t even get reported for some of these L803s as a Big Y novel variant? I am a bit bewildered by this situation. The other branch below L803 is L802 – both of these SNPs discovered in Kit 64529’s WTY. Now with Big Y we have another branch parallel to L802 (Y3239) that seems to be taking in many of the L803 families. The maximum GD between any L803 men is 18 at 111 markers – one L802+ and the other Y3239+. I highlighted them with red arrows on the chart. Interestingly, there is only GD 3 between the other L802 and the family of a Y3238 man – also shown with red arrows. Huge variation. Once again, my sincere appreciation to the YFull Team. Kind regards Julie Frame Falk (Admin) Frame / Freame / Fremault DNA Project

Dear Lists Many thanks to the YFull team for their wonderful interpretation service. Some kits have not had processing finalised as yet, but the YFull Experimental Tree suggests it might be timely for me to post an update for the I1-L803 sector. Thus far, nine of our 15 Big Y testers are members of the I1-Z60 project at YFull. Herewith a link to a chart showing the new branches downstream of I1-L803 as determined by the YFull Team: https://app.box.com/s/w9qhdt8b1hxaas37cqwp I have added some notes to the chart to show most distant ancestor timeframe and geographical locations, but will mention an important point here as well: Family Tree DNA did not report any of our 15 Big Y testers as being derived for the novel variant 14888161. However, when the YFull Team analysed the BAMs they identified four L803 men with reads at this position. YFull named the new SNP Y3239. The read details at 14888161 are as follows: Kit 181118 / YF01508: 3 reads = 3T: C>T Kit 150485 / YF01541: 3 reads = 3T: C>T Kit 136903 / YF01597: 2 reads = 2T: C>T Kit 84205 / YF01603: 1 read = 1T: C>T As can be seen on the chart, and despite the scant number of reads, Y3239 (14888161) appears to be an important gateway SNP to further branches downstream. Unfortunately, with the ‘no reads’ at this position, we cannot determine if Hamilton 8048 / YF01507, Scruggs 16435 / YF01547, and Frame 110238 / YF01617 are L803* or Y3239* (another Hamilton C kit is waiting for a BAM). Has anyone else faced this situation? If so, would FTDNA likely be open to rechecking these kits at 14888161? I don’t have any idea of the the Lab process so this may not be feasible, but I sure would like something definite rather than being left with this ambiguity. There are other L803 members in the Project who did not test Big Y that might also benefit if they could test Y3239 (14888161) – however, what would be my chances of requesting FTDNA to add this SNP to their catalogue when it didn’t even get reported for some of these L803s as a Big Y novel variant? I am a bit bewildered by this situation. The other branch below L803 is L802 – both of these SNPs discovered in Kit 64529’s WTY. Now with Big Y we have another branch parallel to L802 (Y3239) that seems to be taking in many of the L803 families. The maximum GD between any L803 men is 18 at 111 markers – one L802+ and the other Y3239+. I highlighted them with red arrows on the chart. Interestingly, there is only GD 3 between the other L802 and the family of a Y3238 man – also shown with red arrows. Huge variation. Once again, my sincere appreciation to the YFull Team. Kind regards Julie Frame Falk

I believe that will the the C by the T. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Wayne R. Roberts Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 5:27 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree Hummm, okay. Perhaps you can advise me which of the letters on the right hand side correspond to Christie/Hansen kit 226867? On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net>wrote: > All individual downstream weeded NVs are now included in BigYtree-P109 > > All hell breaks loose when the next P109 result comes forth. > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 2:10 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > Nicolas, Thank you for the S series identifications and position > correction > for S25633 > > > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nicolas Taban > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 1:19 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > Ken I saw your update today. > Despite I tend to agree that position would be more precise, they are also > more difficult to read and remember (a combination of letters and numbers > seems easier for the brain). > > So please note that: > 8112824 = S11056 > 22802502 = S7660 > > Also, I do not understand why you have 23486236 = S25633 in this place as > we > are all positive to it. > Have you had a look to the slide I sent you (also available on the I1 > facebook group)? The main structure of the I-P109 subtree is already there > joining both Chromo2 and BigY results (without all the private SNPs). > > Regards, > Nicolas Taban > > > From: knordtvedt@bresnan.net > > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 08:01:49 -0600 > > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > > > > > > > > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nicolas Taban > > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 6:36 AM > > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > > Subject: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > > > You seem to exclude position 17819410 that I previously asked to be > > seeded. > > It regroups (in your slide) "Ca", "R", "Cr" and "A". Have you seeded it > > and > > concluded that it was not a reliable position? > > > > [[Yes, indeed it does survive weeding and unites those four. I just > missed > > it. As is pretty clear, P109 tree is preliminary; it does not include > > unique NVs for many individuals yet. KN]] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

All individual downstream weeded NVs are now included in BigYtree-P109 All hell breaks loose when the next P109 result comes forth. Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 2:10 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree Nicolas, Thank you for the S series identifications and position correction for S25633 Kenneth Nordtvedt Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net -----Original Message----- From: Nicolas Taban Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 1:19 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree Ken I saw your update today. Despite I tend to agree that position would be more precise, they are also more difficult to read and remember (a combination of letters and numbers seems easier for the brain). So please note that: 8112824 = S11056 22802502 = S7660 Also, I do not understand why you have 23486236 = S25633 in this place as we are all positive to it. Have you had a look to the slide I sent you (also available on the I1 facebook group)? The main structure of the I-P109 subtree is already there joining both Chromo2 and BigY results (without all the private SNPs). Regards, Nicolas Taban > From: knordtvedt@bresnan.net > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 08:01:49 -0600 > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > > > > > Kenneth Nordtvedt > > Haplogroup I Clade Modalities and Trees at: > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nicolas Taban > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 6:36 AM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] I-P109 sub tree > > You seem to exclude position 17819410 that I previously asked to be > seeded. > It regroups (in your slide) "Ca", "R", "Cr" and "A". Have you seeded it > and > concluded that it was not a reliable position? > > [[Yes, indeed it does survive weeding and unites those four. I just missed > it. As is pretty clear, P109 tree is preliminary; it does not include > unique NVs for many individuals yet. KN]] > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message