I'm in that group. Could you please explain the significance of this? (to a layman!) Thanks, John Ausman --- On Fri, 11/4/11, Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> wrote: From: Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> Subject: [yDNAhgI] P109+ WTY found a new snp, L840 To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com, genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Date: Friday, November 4, 2011, 4:19 PM L840 at position 19294091 was just announced in a person of the I1d1 P109+ haplogroup. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Ken, I have just received Z63- test (negative) result for me - 105394 (I1-ASP(P)). Other members of our subclade are waiting for Z58 and Z131 tests. Best, Marek Skarbek Kozietulski
I fear another Z77 mess in which lots of money needlessly goes down the drain may be developing with V218. I see many I-M223+ people are ordering this SNP. But it has been reported to be present in I1 as well, and actually seen recently in an I1 WTY result, and it has been suggested it may be far upstream and common to all haplogroup I. I would suggest at least waiting for a test result for V218 coming from a P37+ person before ordering this SNP.
I love colorization, especially for situations when a lot of people in a clade belong to a project, and I have such a project. We have done a fair amount of STR work on that group, and I'm sure that I will do more, but I am hoping for colorization and inclusion of advanced marker results in the ysearch database to help with that. I think that we are to some extent going through a first phase of using more whole genome sequence data to learn about SNPs and there is some catch-up to do right now. I think there will be local maxes and mins in the flow of data even as it increases, and those variations will cause us to change our balance of SNP vs. STR work from time to time. Kirsten ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 3:32:13 PM Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 68-111 over the cliff? FTDNA coloring for what purpose? I could never see any. Given the way we are adding to our snp list, we are far far away from snps being able to replace extended STR haplotypes in learning about the "time" of events in the tree. I hope that is realized in the focus to snps. -----Original Message----- From: dnalister@comcast.net I tend to rely on FTDNA's mutation colorization, and the last time I checked, it was not working for markers 68-111. I believe that is true for both public results pages and GAP results displays. Kirsten ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> I have noticed a strong drop in rate of haplogroup I people who are expanding haplotypes to 111 markers? Anybody have any theory why? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-----Original Message----- From: dnalister@comcast.net I love colorization, [[Don't get me wrong; I love colorization, too. My databases beat by a long shot Vermont's present colorization --- my spreadsheets require putting on sun glasses. But my question was in response to your comment about FTDNA's colorization. What productively does it do? At one point it was connected with highlighting the "fast mutating STRs"? For that I simply put the actual best estimated mutation rates for each STR at the top of my spreadsheets. Is there something else? KN ]]
Hi I thought it was meant to show me were my results varied from the model value for my group blue was less red was more. The deeper the colour the bigger the difference. If this is the colorization you are referring to Ray Jenkins Kit 186150 ysearch AETEN -------Original Message------- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Date: 03/11/2011 8:43:14 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 68-111 over the cliff? -----Original Message----- From: dnalister@comcast.net I love colorization, [[Don't get me wrong; I love colorization, too. My databases beat by a long shot Vermont's present colorization --- my spreadsheets require putting on sun glasses. But my question was in response to your comment about FTDNA's colorization. What productively does it do? At one point it was connected with highlighting the "fast mutating STRs"? For that I simply put the actual best estimated mutation rates for each STR at the top of my spreadsheets. Is there something else? KN ]] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
At the moment I do not think they are available. But it has been half a day since I looked. -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 5:07 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] SNP DF29 Ken, did Family Tree DNA ever make Z60 or z61 available? First one of them was available and then it wasn't, and I've heard nothing about it since. Dora -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 7:02 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] SNP DF29 Dr Krahn needs a bit of time to get the primers and even more time to get the snp in the catalog. But it looks very interesting. I ordered one downstream Z snp covered by DF29 and one outside, so I'm happy. -----Original Message----- From: Roy Silfven Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 5:52 PM To: Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] SNP DF29 Not sure what to make of this but Greg has added DF29 to his I tree and appearing upstream of L22, Z63, and Z58. DF29 is not in the FTDNA catalog. http://www.box.net/shared/z8jfc4gbql7z7lnjklhh Roy Silfven rsilfven@bendcable.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
I don't think it necessary. I have 6 members of your clade who have done 111 markers, and the identifying STRs are very clear for the clade from that. >From a more genealogical point of view, the decision should be up to you fellows whether you want to try to pin down your recent tree better. -----Original Message----- From: Roy Silfven Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 7:10 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] SNP or Other Recommendations Ken ~ In the I1 Project at FTDNA, I'm in the center of the AS9b (AS16 per you) and am Z58+, Z63-, and Z131-. I've ordered Z139 and Z140. In this same subgroup is Kit 121192 who has ordered Z58, Z139, and Z140. Kit 121192 and I are a gd of 3 over 67 markers and we both have done 111 marker testing - gd of 8. He and I are a gd of 3 with Kit 192971 (who has done 67 markers). Question: Is there any value in Kit 192971 doing any of the new SNP tests or doing a 111 marker upgrade? I'm not aware of any others in this subgroup doing any Z-snp testing other than mentioned above. Thanks. Roy Roy Silfven rsilfven@bendcable.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Ken ~ In the I1 Project at FTDNA, I'm in the center of the AS9b (AS16 per you) and am Z58+, Z63-, and Z131-. I've ordered Z139 and Z140. In this same subgroup is Kit 121192 who has ordered Z58, Z139, and Z140. Kit 121192 and I are a gd of 3 over 67 markers and we both have done 111 marker testing - gd of 8. He and I are a gd of 3 with Kit 192971 (who has done 67 markers). Question: Is there any value in Kit 192971 doing any of the new SNP tests or doing a 111 marker upgrade? I'm not aware of any others in this subgroup doing any Z-snp testing other than mentioned above. Thanks. Roy Roy Silfven rsilfven@bendcable.com
Ken, did Family Tree DNA ever make Z60 or z61 available? First one of them was available and then it wasn't, and I've heard nothing about it since. Dora -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 7:02 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] SNP DF29 Dr Krahn needs a bit of time to get the primers and even more time to get the snp in the catalog. But it looks very interesting. I ordered one downstream Z snp covered by DF29 and one outside, so I'm happy. -----Original Message----- From: Roy Silfven Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 5:52 PM To: Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] SNP DF29 Not sure what to make of this but Greg has added DF29 to his I tree and appearing upstream of L22, Z63, and Z58. DF29 is not in the FTDNA catalog. http://www.box.net/shared/z8jfc4gbql7z7lnjklhh Roy Silfven rsilfven@bendcable.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
As I mostly expected, Z131-. Kit 154151 Y-Search MUZGY I1 AS9b (AS16 per Ken Nordtvedt) Roy Silfven rsilfven@bendcable.com
One of the new snps in I1xL22 is Z58. Yesterday three folks were measured Z58+ and 3 or 4 more are inferred to be so due to being Z63- and/or Z131- Z139 and Z140 are believed to be downstream of Z58 by 1000 Genomes investigators. And they are in the FTDNA advanced tests catalog for order. I ordered the two last night. One fellow from I1xL22 T2 clade was found Z63+ and therefore believed to be Z58- Another order from a T2 person for Z58 should soon check this belief. Ken
So, what dies L812 mean for 223 Roots? I interpret from your Tree that Roots & English & Scots M284 are more closely related than the other 223 branches. Does this say something about the geographic origin or Roots or its hot spot? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt [mailto:knordtvedt@bresnan.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 8:21 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com; genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Tree & Map for Hg I Monthly Update November 1 update up at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net for “Tree and Map for Hg I” Present major action in Hg I consists of: L812 dividing M223* Roots L801 tagging much of the Young M223* Continental-1&2, leaving M223-X as remnant M223* New L623+/L147+ subhaplogroup of M223 still has no boundary but probably is all of Continental-2c? L484 splits P78+ ? (we are still waiting for results) Z58, Z63, Z131 may divide up most of I1xL22. Will L803 in I1xL22 bust out of its founding cluster? Z718, L813, L137 found in L22+ but outside of the Bothnians. M26+ just got a dozen new snps; essentially nothing is known about them yet. I’m pretty optimistic Z58,Z63,Z131 will be big deal in splitting I1xL22. We may have some news by December 1 update. My Hg I tree is getting too crowded for one slide. Challenge: does anyone have a haplotype that is Hg I but does not fit into one of the ancient clades or branches not known already? Ken
We only have 2 or 3 results for L812 WITHIN Roots. L812 splits Roots; that's about all we know on such sparse results. I believe on basis of variance/GD distances that M284 and Roots are closer to each other than to rest of M223+ tree clades. Someday we'll have a snp to prove or disprove that. L812 splits Roots, so it is ancestral for M284+ -----Original Message----- From: Phil Alfeld Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:00 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree & Map for Hg I Monthly Update So, what dies L812 mean for 223 Roots? I interpret from your Tree that Roots & English & Scots M284 are more closely related than the other 223 branches. Does this say something about the geographic origin or Roots or its hot spot? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt [mailto:knordtvedt@bresnan.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 8:21 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com; genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Tree & Map for Hg I Monthly Update November 1 update up at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net for “Tree and Map for Hg I” Present major action in Hg I consists of: L812 dividing M223* Roots L801 tagging much of the Young M223* Continental-1&2, leaving M223-X as remnant M223* New L623+/L147+ subhaplogroup of M223 still has no boundary but probably is all of Continental-2c? L484 splits P78+ ? (we are still waiting for results) Z58, Z63, Z131 may divide up most of I1xL22. Will L803 in I1xL22 bust out of its founding cluster? Z718, L813, L137 found in L22+ but outside of the Bothnians. M26+ just got a dozen new snps; essentially nothing is known about them yet. I’m pretty optimistic Z58,Z63,Z131 will be big deal in splitting I1xL22. We may have some news by December 1 update. My Hg I tree is getting too crowded for one slide. Challenge: does anyone have a haplotype that is Hg I but does not fit into one of the ancient clades or branches not known already? Ken ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Ken - I1-AS-9 came back Z58+ (Kit 181820 ) On Nov 1, 2011, at 9:38 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > I1-AS3 clade is Z58+, Z63-, Z131- > I1-AS2 clade is Z58+ so far. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message
I personally came out Z63- and Z131-, so I am assuming I am Z58+ (although I conceivably could be ancestral for Z58 as well --- and remain a real outlier). Anyway, I see two snps downstream of Z58 are available for order --- Z139 and Z140. So I have ordered both. It might be the logical next step for the others tonight who were confirmed Z58+ Ken -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt I1-AS3 clade is Z58+, Z63-, Z131- I1-AS2 clade is Z58+ so far. I1-T2 clade is Z63+, Z131- so far
I1-AS3 clade is Z58+, Z63-, Z131- I1-AS2 clade is Z58+ so far.
This would seem to be interesting news for us T2 folks. The language from FTDNA (for kit 49061) is: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- positive for the following SNPs: Z63+ P30+ M253+; and negative for the following SNPs: Z131- P259- P109- M227- M21- L338- L22-. According to the current classification, you have been assigned to: Haplogroup I1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Any suggested next steps? Thanks, Keith -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 6:39 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com; genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] T2 clade peels away Clade T2 of I1xL22 received test results of Z63+ and Z131-, differing it on Z63 from half a dozen other test results. I turned out Z63- and Z131-, so I have ordered Z139 and Z140 which are downstream of Z58 (which I for now am assuming I am derived). Ken ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
SNP testing is often unnecessary. STR results are often enough to infer SNPs. I think a drop off in 111 testing is probably due to the state of the economy more than anything else. -- Aaron --- On Tue, 1/11/11, dnalister@comcast.net <dnalister@comcast.net> wrote: > From: dnalister@comcast.net <dnalister@comcast.net> > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] 68-111 over the cliff? > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Date: Tuesday, 1 November, 2011, 19:21 > I don't know if I am typical, but I > am not spending time these days encouraging people to > upgrade to 111 markers for two reasons. One is that there is > so much SNP testing to recommend to people that that keeps > me busy. Another is that I tend to rely on FTDNA's mutation > colorization, and the last time I checked, it was not > working for markers 68-111. I believe that is true for both > public results pages and GAP results displays. > > I've been hoping that FTDNA would focus on this once they > roll out their 23andMe upload capability. I hope we get some > good news coming out of the conference. > > Kirsten
Clade T2 of I1xL22 received test results of Z63+ and Z131-, differing it on Z63 from half a dozen other test results. I turned out Z63- and Z131-, so I have ordered Z139 and Z140 which are downstream of Z58 (which I for now am assuming I am derived). Ken