The bulk of I1xL22 who have done the Z58, Z63, Z131 tests have been Z58. The bulk of the Z58 who have done the Z139 test have been negative. A new snp downstream of Z58 is now available in FTDNA catalog --- Z59. I would encourage Z58+ folks, especially those who tested Z139 and Z138 and are negative, to test for Z59. It would be nice to divide the Z58 population again. Ken

A powerpoint file “Sigma for Variance” is now completed at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net The first two slides summarize the analytically determined formulas for the distribution sigmas accompanying tmrca estimates for y trees under our simple models of STR mutation behavior. These formulas were confirmed as correct using hundreds of thousands of simulations. For those not so interested in the underlying derivations of sigma sizes, the last three slides in “Sigma for Variance” give some numerical outcomes or formula results for a broad assortment of y tree types. Both some genealogical time frame examples and deep time frame examples are given. The evidence accumulates that STRs mutate according to more complex probability rules than the simple model. Independent of whatever tmrca estimate adjustments more realistic mutation rules require, the intrinsic sigmas associated with the estimates will still be there and behaving approximately like the sigmas from these formulas found from the simple model. Many journal articles as well as other sources have thrown out unreasonably small sigma values applying to their tmrca type age estimates for y trees. What finally drove me to derive these sigma formulas from underlying principles was the recent and much discussed journal article on a favorite Y haplogroup R1b...... which claimed some very unreasonable, small sigmas or statistical error bars. On checking with authors on methodology for their published sigmas, it was clear they were a measure of the tmrca fluctuations associated with taking random subsets of haplotypes from their large total collection of haplotypes, and estimating tmrcas with each subset. They were generating sigmas due to sampling! Each subset of haplotypes has its own slightly different tree, so of course it captures slightly different collections of mutations leading to slightly different tmrca estimates. That’s sampling noise, but that error misses the intrinsic error which will be present if each and every male in the world of the clade in question had his haplotype included in the total set. The intrinsic tmrca error (whose size on average the sigma formulas give) exists because nature’s one time insertion of random STR mutations into the underlying tree leads to a variance or asd which will typically be off the mark of its expected value --- due to the particularities of location and number of the STR mutations for this one random case from nature. Because of the collapse of y trees to single founders, this intrinsic sigma is typically the dominant contribution to total sigma. It can only be reduced in size by using more and more independent STRs which can be thought of as independent and multiple random mutation runs through nature’s one tree.

Here's a curious story from The Telegraph. "Shorter people could blame their lack of height on a shortage of genes, a study suggests." "[R]esearchers believe that missing copies of genes or other sections of DNA could be to blame for up to half of the genetic impact on our height. The genetic abnormalities – known as copy number variants (CNV) – . . . are common but others only occur in a small number of people. [P]eople with more unusual CNV deletions – where part of the genome is missing – have a tendency to be shorter in stature. While everyone has at least some of these deletions in their genome, covering thousands of individual components of DNA, others have several million. Two studies of a combined 12,000 people by researchers from the Children's Hospital Boston found that for every million individual deletions, people lost one eighth of an inch in height." The study, led by Dr. Joel Hirschhorn, was published in the American Journal of Human Genetics. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8910433/Short-people-have-shortage-of-genes.html

-----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith How likely is it that DYS 385a is really 9? [[Not likely in standard convention ]] How likely is it that a rare SNP would be found in the 1000 genomes test that only found 15 I1? [[Not likely]]

I also think this could be a mistake. Everything what is tested by FTDNA and professional companies underlies professional standard procedures (double-checking etc.). In the mentioned case the result is coming from a scientific laboratory. I don't know whether they use special procedures to avoid mistakes. Marek Skarbek Kozietulski -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:28 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Z131+ How likely is it that DYS 385a is really 9? I saw that, I think on more than one haplotype in that table of STR data that was on DNA Forums, and wondered if it was a mistake. That would be atypical, alright. You would have to look for other I1 people who have 9 at 385a and get them to test. How likely is it that a rare SNP would be found in the 1000 genomes test that only found 15 I1? Dora -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marek Skarbek Kozietulski Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 10:30 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Z131+ Probably nobody among the FTDNA tested individuals had the Z131+ until now. I have found that an STR haplotype of one of the three Genome 1000 tested people with Z131+ was already published on the DNA Forums Haplogroup I1 http://dna-forums.org/index.php?/topic/15714-z58-and-z63-under-i1-confirmed/ page__st__-20__p__26#entry26 , and earlier in an article http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0004684 I have uploaded the STR haplotype here http://medievalgenealogy.republika.pl/Z131+.PNG . This is rather an untypical haplotype. The subclade predictor shows: I-M253-1313 =>30% I-M253-EE =>30% I-M253-AS10 =>29% ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2101/4637 - Release Date: 11/24/11

How likely is it that DYS 385a is really 9? I saw that, I think on more than one haplotype in that table of STR data that was on DNA Forums, and wondered if it was a mistake. That would be atypical, alright. You would have to look for other I1 people who have 9 at 385a and get them to test. How likely is it that a rare SNP would be found in the 1000 genomes test that only found 15 I1? Dora -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Marek Skarbek Kozietulski Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 10:30 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Z131+ Probably nobody among the FTDNA tested individuals had the Z131+ until now. I have found that an STR haplotype of one of the three Genome 1000 tested people with Z131+ was already published on the DNA Forums Haplogroup I1 http://dna-forums.org/index.php?/topic/15714-z58-and-z63-under-i1-confirmed/ page__st__-20__p__26#entry26 , and earlier in an article http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0004684 I have uploaded the STR haplotype here http://medievalgenealogy.republika.pl/Z131+.PNG . This is rather an untypical haplotype. The subclade predictor shows: I-M253-1313 =>30% I-M253-EE =>30% I-M253-AS10 =>29%

There is no 385 = 9,14 in the entire I1 Project. There is one 385 = 9,14 I1 in Ysearch, but it does not have the 13 at 456 or the high 389, and it is 15 at DYS19. So the sketchy Z131+ haplotype that 1000 Genomes has shown does not really help us find more. I am sort of hoping I1-P will remain I1* What are your bets on it? -----Original Message----- From: Marek Skarbek Kozietulski Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 9:30 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Z131+ Probably nobody among the FTDNA tested individuals had the Z131+ until now. I have found that an STR haplotype of one of the three Genome 1000 tested people with Z131+ was already published on the DNA Forums Haplogroup I1 http://dna-forums.org/index.php?/topic/15714-z58-and-z63-under-i1-confirmed/ page__st__-20__p__26#entry26 , and earlier in an article http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0004684 I have uploaded the STR haplotype here http://medievalgenealogy.republika.pl/Z131+.PNG . This is rather an untypical haplotype. The subclade predictor shows: I-M253-1313 =>30% I-M253-EE =>30% I-M253-AS10 =>29% I belong to the subclade I1-P (I1-ASP), and we already have Z58- and Z63- in our subclade. We are just waiting on Z131 with the hope that finally this SNP will be positive for us. Nevertheless, the mentioned STR haplotype seems to be very distant from our subclade. Best, Marek Skarbek Kozietulski ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

< There is no 385 = 9,14 in the entire I1 Project. > I agree. I have also no one similar case in my database (Continental Europe). < I am sort of hoping I1-P will remain I1*. What are your bets on it?> I have similar view. Best, Marek Skarbek Kozietulski -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 9:29 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Z131+ There is no 385 = 9,14 in the entire I1 Project. There is one 385 = 9,14 I1 in Ysearch, but it does not have the 13 at 456 or the high 389, and it is 15 at DYS19. So the sketchy Z131+ haplotype that 1000 Genomes has shown does not really help us find more. I am sort of hoping I1-P will remain I1* What are your bets on it? -----Original Message----- From: Marek Skarbek Kozietulski Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 9:30 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Z131+ Probably nobody among the FTDNA tested individuals had the Z131+ until now. I have found that an STR haplotype of one of the three Genome 1000 tested people with Z131+ was already published on the DNA Forums Haplogroup I1 http://dna-forums.org/index.php?/topic/15714-z58-and-z63-under-i1-confirmed/ page__st__-20__p__26#entry26 , and earlier in an article http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0004684 I have uploaded the STR haplotype here http://medievalgenealogy.republika.pl/Z131+.PNG . This is rather an untypical haplotype. The subclade predictor shows: I-M253-1313 =>30% I-M253-EE =>30% I-M253-AS10 =>29% I belong to the subclade I1-P (I1-ASP), and we already have Z58- and Z63- in our subclade. We are just waiting on Z131 with the hope that finally this SNP will be positive for us. Nevertheless, the mentioned STR haplotype seems to be very distant from our subclade. Best, Marek Skarbek Kozietulski ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2101/4634 - Release Date: 11/23/11

Probably nobody among the FTDNA tested individuals had the Z131+ until now. I have found that an STR haplotype of one of the three Genome 1000 tested people with Z131+ was already published on the DNA Forums Haplogroup I1 http://dna-forums.org/index.php?/topic/15714-z58-and-z63-under-i1-confirmed/ page__st__-20__p__26#entry26 , and earlier in an article http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0004684 I have uploaded the STR haplotype here http://medievalgenealogy.republika.pl/Z131+.PNG . This is rather an untypical haplotype. The subclade predictor shows: I-M253-1313 =>30% I-M253-EE =>30% I-M253-AS10 =>29% I belong to the subclade I1-P (I1-ASP), and we already have Z58- and Z63- in our subclade. We are just waiting on Z131 with the hope that finally this SNP will be positive for us. Nevertheless, the mentioned STR haplotype seems to be very distant from our subclade. Best, Marek Skarbek Kozietulski

Hello, There was a posting recently about interpreting autosomal results using Interpretome. I contacted them and was told that they do not officially support FTDNA results but they say that others have converted FTDNA and used it with Interpretome. Does anybody know how to do this ? Thanks. Patrick Holland.

GeneTree is having sale on a 46 (actually 43) marker Y-DNA test for $79.00 - Black Friday and beyond. You can bundle an mtDNA test for an additional $60. http://tinyurl.com/cccncj6 Jim -- Jim Owston ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *James M. Owston, Ed.D.* Dean of Distance Learning Associate Professor: Communication and Media *Mountain State University* PO Box 9003 Beckley WV 25802-9003 304.929.1356 800.766.6067 x1356 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

I did tmrca for the whole 20 or so haplotypes of the clade you are in, and got tmrca = 1900 years with sigma of 300 years. -----Original Message----- From: Roy Silfven Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:56 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Sigmas for TMRCA estimates Ken and all ~ Having no skill at this sort of stuff, I never the less jumped into the gap. I entered values for 3 guys and myself from the AS9b (AS16 per Ken): Kits U2614, 192971, 121192, 154151. We are a rather tight group at 67 markers, the closest is a GD of 2 and a max GD of 5. Three of us claim our most distant male ancestor from Finland c. 550-510 YBP and one of us is Scottish with likely links to Viking Norway. Did I do it right? My initial guess age estimate was 800. My first result at BV529 was 9.9013. The second iteration was 9.8300032. I’m not sure of the relevance but the SigimaG= at BY529 is 6.90363. Roy Silfven rsilfven@bendcable.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If you are down on row 529, you are doing interclade. Do you have two clades? I thought you had just one? Maybe you are calling the three Finns one clade and the Scot another? If you have just one clade use BZ9 and BX9 as your outputs. If you are doing interclade, use for the sigma the BY533 SSigma -----Original Message----- From: Roy Silfven Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:56 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Sigmas for TMRCA estimates Ken and all ~ Having no skill at this sort of stuff, I never the less jumped into the gap. I entered values for 3 guys and myself from the AS9b (AS16 per Ken): Kits U2614, 192971, 121192, 154151. We are a rather tight group at 67 markers, the closest is a GD of 2 and a max GD of 5. Three of us claim our most distant male ancestor from Finland c. 550-510 YBP and one of us is Scottish with likely links to Viking Norway. Did I do it right? My initial guess age estimate was 800. My first result at BV529 was 9.9013. The second iteration was 9.8300032. I’m not sure of the relevance but the SigimaG= at BY529 is 6.90363. Roy Silfven rsilfven@bendcable.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ken and all ~ Having no skill at this sort of stuff, I never the less jumped into the gap. I entered values for 3 guys and myself from the AS9b (AS16 per Ken): Kits U2614, 192971, 121192, 154151. We are a rather tight group at 67 markers, the closest is a GD of 2 and a max GD of 5. Three of us claim our most distant male ancestor from Finland c. 550-510 YBP and one of us is Scottish with likely links to Viking Norway. Did I do it right? My initial guess age estimate was 800. My first result at BV529 was 9.9013. The second iteration was 9.8300032. I’m not sure of the relevance but the SigimaG= at BY529 is 6.90363. Roy Silfven rsilfven@bendcable.com

Fully concur. Cheers, Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: <lambeth@tadaust.org.au> To: <y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 1:38 AM Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Test Results for L801 > Ryan, I support your comment. > > Patrick Holland. > > > On 11/21/2011 8:36 PM, Holmes, Ryan D. (KSC-SAD20) wrote: >> A public shout out to Ken: Thank you, sir, for all that you do! >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kenneth Nordtvedt [mailto:knordtvedt@bresnan.net] >> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 5:33 PM >> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Test Results for L801 >> >> L801 separates the largest hunk of Continental-1&2 from M284, from Roots, >> > From P78+, from L623+, and from M223*-X which has a hotspot at >> > Lockheed's >> secret "skunkworks" factory in the desert. >> >> P95 is L801+ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Michael O'Driscoll >> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 3:23 PM >> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Test Results for L801 >> >> So is it fair to say L801, divides Continental from Roots? It seems the >> resulting SNPs of most folks testing are M223+, L801+ M284- and P95-. >> I'm not making a statement, just asking a question. >> >> On 11/20/2011 4:06 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: >>> No; it seems to be a tag for the vast majority of Continentals of M223+, >>> but >>> other clades of M223+ are negative for it including some ancient >>> clusters >>> within the Continentals. >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Holmes, Ryan D. (KSC-SAD20) >>> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 2:53 PM >>> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: [yDNAhgI] Test Results for L801 >>> >>> FTDNA Kit #: 117885 >>> YSearch: JKPRK >>> Tested L801+ >>> >>> Is L801 equivalent to M223? >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Ryan, I support your comment. Patrick Holland. On 11/21/2011 8:36 PM, Holmes, Ryan D. (KSC-SAD20) wrote: > A public shout out to Ken: Thank you, sir, for all that you do! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt [mailto:knordtvedt@bresnan.net] > Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 5:33 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Test Results for L801 > > L801 separates the largest hunk of Continental-1&2 from M284, from Roots, > > From P78+, from L623+, and from M223*-X which has a hotspot at Lockheed's > secret "skunkworks" factory in the desert. > > P95 is L801+ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael O'Driscoll > Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 3:23 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Test Results for L801 > > So is it fair to say L801, divides Continental from Roots? It seems the > resulting SNPs of most folks testing are M223+, L801+ M284- and P95-. > I'm not making a statement, just asking a question. > > On 11/20/2011 4:06 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: >> No; it seems to be a tag for the vast majority of Continentals of M223+, >> but >> other clades of M223+ are negative for it including some ancient clusters >> within the Continentals. >> >> Ken >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Holmes, Ryan D. (KSC-SAD20) >> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 2:53 PM >> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [yDNAhgI] Test Results for L801 >> >> FTDNA Kit #: 117885 >> YSearch: JKPRK >> Tested L801+ >> >> Is L801 equivalent to M223? >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Ken, How is P95+ equivalent to L801+? I'm asking because everyone who is L801+ on the I2b1/M223 Y-CLAN STUDY - Y-DNA SNP <http://www.familytreedna.com/public/M223-Y-Clan/default.aspx?section=ysnp> webpage so far is also P95-. What am I missing? Cheers Michael On 11/20/2011 4:33 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > L801 separates the largest hunk of Continental-1&2 from M284, from Roots, > > From P78+, from L623+, and from M223*-X which has a hotspot at Lockheed's > secret "skunkworks" factory in the desert. > > P95 is L801+ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael O'Driscoll > Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 3:23 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Test Results for L801 > > So is it fair to say L801, divides Continental from Roots? It seems the > resulting SNPs of most folks testing are M223+, L801+ M284- and P95-. > I'm not making a statement, just asking a question. > > On 11/20/2011 4:06 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: >> No; it seems to be a tag for the vast majority of Continentals of M223+, >> but >> other clades of M223+ are negative for it including some ancient clusters >> within the Continentals. >> >> Ken >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Holmes, Ryan D. (KSC-SAD20) >> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 2:53 PM >> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [yDNAhgI] Test Results for L801 >> >> FTDNA Kit #: 117885 >> YSearch: JKPRK >> Tested L801+ >> >> Is L801 equivalent to M223? >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

How about Budz kit 122753? He is P95+ and L801+ That's more important than how many L801+ you see outside of P95+ -----Original Message----- From: Michael O'Driscoll Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 8:25 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Test Results for L801 Ken, How is P95+ equivalent to L801+? I'm asking because everyone who is L801+ on the I2b1/M223 Y-CLAN STUDY - Y-DNA SNP <http://www.familytreedna.com/public/M223-Y-Clan/default.aspx?section=ysnp> webpage so far is also P95-. What am I missing? Cheers Michael On 11/20/2011 4:33 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > L801 separates the largest hunk of Continental-1&2 from M284, from Roots, > > From P78+, from L623+, and from M223*-X which has a hotspot at > > Lockheed's > secret "skunkworks" factory in the desert. > > P95 is L801+ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael O'Driscoll > Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 3:23 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Test Results for L801 > > So is it fair to say L801, divides Continental from Roots? It seems the > resulting SNPs of most folks testing are M223+, L801+ M284- and P95-. > I'm not making a statement, just asking a question. > > On 11/20/2011 4:06 PM, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: >> No; it seems to be a tag for the vast majority of Continentals of M223+, >> but >> other clades of M223+ are negative for it including some ancient clusters >> within the Continentals. >> >> Ken >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Holmes, Ryan D. (KSC-SAD20) >> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 2:53 PM >> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [yDNAhgI] Test Results for L801 >> >> FTDNA Kit #: 117885 >> YSearch: JKPRK >> Tested L801+ >> >> Is L801 equivalent to M223? >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dora, I thought that the purpose of this mailing list was specifically to study dna haplogroup - I. Adverse comments such as those you make in your recent posting about another member is way out of order and you should apologize and restrict your comments to the subject matter of the list and also not imply in your comments that you are qualified to give a medical opinion. Regards. Patrick Holland.

I have repeatedly asked that commentary on this issue be ended. We nearly avoided a protracted flame war, so why bring it back up now?! Everyone, please refrain from this. Let's get back to genetics and genealogy. If you think something needs to be addressed, please contact me privately, not on the list. You may reach me via y-dna-haplogroup-i-admin@rootsweb.com. -- Aaron Hill, List Administrator > From: lambeth@tadaust.org.au <lambeth@tadaust.org.au> > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Uni[n]formed adverse comments about other members. > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Date: Monday, 21 November, 2011, 12:33 > Dora, > > I thought that the purpose of this mailing list was > specifically to > study dna haplogroup - I. > > Adverse comments such as those you make in your > recent  posting about > another member is way out of order and you should apologize > and restrict > your comments to the subject matter of the list and also > not imply in > your comments that you are qualified to give a medical > opinion. > > Regards. > > Patrick Holland.