Excuse me if this has already been answered, but is there some place in one of your trees or spreadsheets where the hotspot for each variety of I1-As is listed? If not, I think a lot of people would find this very helpful. "Indeed the hotspot for L338+ AS1 is NW Germany and Netherlands. Of course much got to the British Isles as well. L338+ AS8 has a slightly more easterly hotspot, perhaps Pomerania."

That sure is interesting to find another one negative for all three. But by itself it is not what makes someone generic or non-generic. "generic" means I can't see the person's haplotype as part of a clade. They seem to go back to the founder of I1 as their first recognizable common ancestor. But I notice that in my 68-111 markers collection I have this Bowman in a cluster with 25 at 714 and 18 at 650. Those are not rare values, just off modal one step. But I'll keep my eye on the cluster. WE're not getting the Z information in very large quantity from FTDNA, unfortunately. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Phil Alfeld Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 6:02 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps The tests were completed. My cousin is Z58-/Z63-/Z131- Does this take Bowman out of generic? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Phil Alfeld [mailto:palfeld@skndlaw.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 11:25 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps Thanks. I ordered those tests from FTDNA, although the personal page says no tests are pending. I've emailed FTDNA for a status report. Thanks again. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt [mailto:knordtvedt@bresnan.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 11:04 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps The Bowman/Lowe/Nevader haplotype I have in the I1generic collection. There is no way to know where it would be on the Z-series snp based tree without him doing Z58/Z63/Z131 discrimination. The generics are splitting up to be sprinkled on most all the main branches. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Phil Alfeld Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:49 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps Where does my Bowman cousin place in this tree? His ysearch ID is GRDX4. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt [mailto:knordtvedt@bresnan.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 3:35 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com; genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps Because of the fast breaking developments in I1 due to the Z series snps, I have put up a tree for I1 at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net “Tree for I1” This will be updated from time to time as information is developing rapidly. Ken ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, I have been following the emails of this group for a while now and have to admit that most of the information shared is way over my head. I upgraded my y-chromosome test to 67 markers which had previously been suggested for me to do. I am user 2989M and desire to know what clade I belong to. I purchased a deep clade test, yielding the results M253+ M170+ L15+ P259- M227- M21- L211- My ancestor immigrated to the US in 1732 from Herrenberg, Wurttemberg, Germany. I also have traced my ancestry back to 1542 in Spielberg, Wurttemberg. Prior to 1542 it is likely that I am from Northern Germany in the area of Hesse near Marburg and Rauschenberg. It has been suggested that I have genetic ties to the Counts of Ziegenhain. Thank you, Bill Roushey (once Rauschenberger)

The tests were completed. My cousin is Z58-/Z63-/Z131- Does this take Bowman out of generic? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Phil Alfeld [mailto:palfeld@skndlaw.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 11:25 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps Thanks. I ordered those tests from FTDNA, although the personal page says no tests are pending. I've emailed FTDNA for a status report. Thanks again. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt [mailto:knordtvedt@bresnan.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 11:04 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps The Bowman/Lowe/Nevader haplotype I have in the I1generic collection. There is no way to know where it would be on the Z-series snp based tree without him doing Z58/Z63/Z131 discrimination. The generics are splitting up to be sprinkled on most all the main branches. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Phil Alfeld Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 5:49 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps Where does my Bowman cousin place in this tree? His ysearch ID is GRDX4. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt [mailto:knordtvedt@bresnan.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 3:35 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com; genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps Because of the fast breaking developments in I1 due to the Z series snps, I have put up a tree for I1 at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net “Tree for I1” This will be updated from time to time as information is developing rapidly. Ken ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sorry for the spam. The spammers are getting more sophisticated. The email address has been banned permanently from the list and the message will be removed from the archives. Aaron Hill, List Administrator

I have put up on my site http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net some output of a program which does simulation of how a demographic tree of descendants develops (or goes extinct). It is called “FirstNode.txt” We can tame the stocastic fluctuations of mutations to a good degree for prediction or “tree tagging” purposes by using a large number of STRs in our haplotypes --- each STR being an independent “clock” of sorts running through the tree. But when considering a specific tree, there is basically nothing that can be done to tame the early generation stocastic fluctuations of reproduction --- a tree first has just two people, then three, then four....., and such small numbers have large stocastic fluctuations in their reproductive outputs. As a result any specific male in a population has very huge variation in what his descendant population will be in the future, in addition to the ultimate demographic lottery of extinction or not of his descendant line. Extinction probabilities are quite large even for a growing population. The purpose of looking at generational distance to “first node” was because that is an important parameter in relating tree coalescence age to tree tmrca. While we don’t know how far apart these ages are for an ancient, pre-paper-genealogy tree, I was hoping some experience about coalescence age versus tmrca could be collected by these simulation studies.

Ken, I am 15 at 464d, and 9 at 511 ( I do not have 462; that must be in the 111 set, I have just 67). Nevertheless, I'm looking like AS1. History has recorded that the Netherlands (specifically, east of Utrecht Hill, near the mouth of the Rhine) was a settling and staging area for the Saxons, Angles perhaps Jutes. It is certain that many went from there to England c. 450 AD but some likely remained in the Netherlands. I am thinking that my ancestor was in the latter group, eventually traveling up the Rhine to Switzerland. But, this is speculation. Fascinating stuff! Regards, Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt<mailto:knordtvedt@bresnan.net> To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com<mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Recent Test Results L338+ Indeed the hotspot for L338+ AS1 is NW Germany and Netherlands. Of course much got to the British Isles as well. L338+ AS8 has a slightly more easterly hotspot, perhaps Pomerania. If you have a 17 at 464d you are probably AS8. If you have 9 at 511 and 12 at 462 you are probably AS1 Ken -----Original Message----- From: J E DESTEIGUER Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 8:21 PM To: Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I@rootsweb.com<mailto:Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I@rootsweb.com> Subject: [yDNAhgI] Recent Test Results L338+ I received my SNP test result from FTDNA which indicated: L338+. (Previous tests had determined that I was I1 (100%) with my subclade was AS1 (>79%)). Might this SNP result suggest that my ancestors were likely Saxons associated with extreme northern Germany and/or the Netherlands? Also, what additional SNP tests are recommended for me, and what might be learned from them. (My kit is N100040; earliest known ancestor was from Switzerland.) Regards, Ed ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ken WTY results for both SNPs Sample Marker Allele GRC018950 R-P312 L844 T- GRC028819 R-M417 (L664) L844 T- GRC10044753 I-P109 L844 C+ GRC10045868 J-L222.2 L844 T- GRC11052761 L-M61* L844 T- GRC11057059 R-M417 (Z93) L844 T- GRC11060609 J-P58 L844 T- GRC11064980 J-L147.1 L844 T- Bob DNA Projects I2*, ISOGG new I2b, I2c HG & Tyler Surname and ISOGG YTree A Fair Deal for Members of the Defence and Ex Service Community. The march to CANBERRA has begun. Will YOU join us? -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 4:25 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] L847 and L844 According to Dr Krahn's browser, L844 and L847 were found in an I1d1 P109 person. So they seem to be very upstream and universal in haplogroup I, or they are high rate mutators. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 11:19 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] L847 and L844 What is the origin of these snps? Who was found positive first? FTDNA broke my ability to read WTY reports from GAP. So I am flying blind? -----Original Message----- From: Bob May Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 4:32 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] L847 and L844 Ken Kit N45086 (13-23) I2c reports + for both Bob DNA Projects I2*, ISOGG new I2b, I2c HG & Tyler Surname and ISOGG YTree A Fair Deal for Members of the Defence and Ex Service Community. The march to CANBERRA has begun. Will YOU join us? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A la carte SNP tests Bob DNA Projects I2*, ISOGG new I2b, I2c HG & Tyler Surname and ISOGG YTree A Fair Deal for Members of the Defence and Ex Service Community. The march to CANBERRA has begun. Will YOU join us? -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 4:25 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] L847 and L844 According to Dr Krahn's browser, L844 and L847 were found in an I1d1 P109 person. So they seem to be very upstream and universal in haplogroup I, or they are high rate mutators. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 11:19 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] L847 and L844 What is the origin of these snps? Who was found positive first? FTDNA broke my ability to read WTY reports from GAP. So I am flying blind? -----Original Message----- From: Bob May Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 4:32 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] L847 and L844 Ken Kit N45086 (13-23) I2c reports + for both Bob DNA Projects I2*, ISOGG new I2b, I2c HG & Tyler Surname and ISOGG YTree A Fair Deal for Members of the Defence and Ex Service Community. The march to CANBERRA has begun. Will YOU join us? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ken Kit N45086 (13-23) I2c reports + for both Bob DNA Projects I2*, ISOGG new I2b, I2c HG & Tyler Surname and ISOGG YTree A Fair Deal for Members of the Defence and Ex Service Community. The march to CANBERRA has begun. Will YOU join us?

Indeed the hotspot for L338+ AS1 is NW Germany and Netherlands. Of course much got to the British Isles as well. L338+ AS8 has a slightly more easterly hotspot, perhaps Pomerania. If you have a 17 at 464d you are probably AS8. If you have 9 at 511 and 12 at 462 you are probably AS1 Ken -----Original Message----- From: J E DESTEIGUER Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 8:21 PM To: Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Recent Test Results L338+ I received my SNP test result from FTDNA which indicated: L338+. (Previous tests had determined that I was I1 (100%) with my subclade was AS1 (>79%)). Might this SNP result suggest that my ancestors were likely Saxons associated with extreme northern Germany and/or the Netherlands? Also, what additional SNP tests are recommended for me, and what might be learned from them. (My kit is N100040; earliest known ancestor was from Switzerland.) Regards, Ed ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Unfortunately not, but I thought there could be. On Thu, December 1, 2011 21:01, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: > I am not sure I have any Z series snp information for L205 and L300 > subhaplogroups? Do you know of any results yet? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ole Selmer > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 12:54 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Tree for I1 with new Z snps > > Hi Ken > > Any reason for not including L205 and L300 in your tree? > Both SNPs are proven downstream of L22 - I think. > > Ole > > On Tue, November 29, 2011 22:34, Kenneth Nordtvedt wrote: >> Because of the fast breaking developments in I1 due to the Z series snps, >> I have put up a tree for I1 at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net >> “Tree for I1” >> >> This will be updated from time to time as information is developing >> rapidly. >> >> >> >> Ken >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in >> the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

I received my SNP test result from FTDNA which indicated: L338+. (Previous tests had determined that I was I1 (100%) with my subclade was AS1 (>79%)). Might this SNP result suggest that my ancestors were likely Saxons associated with extreme northern Germany and/or the Netherlands? Also, what additional SNP tests are recommended for me, and what might be learned from them. (My kit is N100040; earliest known ancestor was from Switzerland.) Regards, Ed

There are two large clades in I1d L22+ which should consider testing for L813 and L380 One has 13 at DYS464b. The fraction of 464 = 12-13-15-16 in I1d L22+ is much, much larger than that in I1xL22 The other clade in I1d L22+ could be called the I1d-NR clade (NR for north Russia) although it has a good number of Scandinavian and British Isles members, too. This clade is distinquished by its 13 at DYS392 and 24 at DYS447, large number of 19 at DYS448, and 12-15-16-16 at DYS464. This clade does not look young. KN

Muchas gracias Victor On 12/2/2011 11:45 AM, Victor Jensen wrote: > Loud and Clear. > > -----Original Message----- > From: patrick > Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 7:25 PM > To: Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] connected > > Please let me know if I am subscribed to this list > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

sorry for the typo in previous message my FTDNA kit # is 79332 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> To: "Car Low" <carlow43@yahoo.com>; <y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Where is Z131+ ? > Outlier reaches this time of year are reached by dog sled. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Car Low > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:51 PM > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Where is Z131+ ? > > I'm in there waiting results on the Z131, Z58 and Z62.... before I banish > my husband to the extreme outlier region. Where is that, by the way? > Does > Southwest fly there? I've got some miles saved up......... ;-) > Carolyn Lowe > > > ________________________________ > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com; genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:53 PM > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Where is Z131+ ? > > If you look at the “Tree for I1” file at > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net > (1 December 2011 version) you will see that I1 tree branch having Z131+ > has > not been found yet in FTDNA tests. > > But incorporating the 1000 Genomes view that Z131+ haplotypes exist, and > probably fit into the tree upstream of a yet to be cataloged DF29 snp, one > concludes any Z131+ haplotypes will be real outliers with lots of > differences from the bulk of I1 haplotypes. > > If you have a extreme outlier I1 haplotype, you might consider testing for > Z131, and probably Z58 and Z63 just to be safe you find a niche. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I found my results today on my FTDNA page,no e-mail notifier.I am kit#39332,Y-search 3NNCA,I1*,Z58 positive,Z63&131 negative. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Car Low" <carlow43@yahoo.com> To: <y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] Where is Z131+ ? > I'm in there waiting results on the Z131, Z58 and Z62.... before I banish > my husband to the extreme outlier region. Where is that, by the way? Does > Southwest fly there? I've got some miles saved up......... ;-) > Carolyn Lowe > > > ________________________________ > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> > To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com; genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:53 PM > Subject: [yDNAhgI] Where is Z131+ ? > > If you look at the “Tree for I1” file at > http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net (1 December 2011 version) you will see > that I1 tree branch having Z131+ has not been found yet in FTDNA tests. > > But incorporating the 1000 Genomes view that Z131+ haplotypes exist, and > probably fit into the tree upstream of a yet to be cataloged DF29 snp, one > concludes any Z131+ haplotypes will be real outliers with lots of > differences from the bulk of I1 haplotypes. > > If you have a extreme outlier I1 haplotype, you might consider testing for > Z131, and probably Z58 and Z63 just to be safe you find a niche. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Please let me know if I am subscribed to this list

According to Dr Krahn's browser, L844 and L847 were found in an I1d1 P109 person. So they seem to be very upstream and universal in haplogroup I, or they are high rate mutators. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 11:19 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] L847 and L844 What is the origin of these snps? Who was found positive first? FTDNA broke my ability to read WTY reports from GAP. So I am flying blind? -----Original Message----- From: Bob May Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 4:32 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] L847 and L844 Ken Kit N45086 (13-23) I2c reports + for both Bob DNA Projects I2*, ISOGG new I2b, I2c HG & Tyler Surname and ISOGG YTree A Fair Deal for Members of the Defence and Ex Service Community. The march to CANBERRA has begun. Will YOU join us? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What is the origin of these snps? Who was found positive first? FTDNA broke my ability to read WTY reports from GAP. So I am flying blind? -----Original Message----- From: Bob May Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 4:32 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] L847 and L844 Ken Kit N45086 (13-23) I2c reports + for both Bob DNA Projects I2*, ISOGG new I2b, I2c HG & Tyler Surname and ISOGG YTree A Fair Deal for Members of the Defence and Ex Service Community. The march to CANBERRA has begun. Will YOU join us? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message