Hi Aaron You said: <<Indeed, at the moment, the project is looking for additional volunteers within the Cont subgroup of M223 (L801+) to participate in the Walk through the Y program (WTY). The project has enough funds to pay for half the cost of one exam ($350), so the participant would cover the remaining amount. If you are interested in participating in the program, please reply with your kit number.>> He may not be an ideal candidate as he has very few matches, but if you feel Kit 77830 can help with your proposed new WTY I am willing to contribute the remainder of the fee. He is I2b1 I-M223 (YSearch: XX7FG). His SNP test lineup is L147.1-, L801+, M223+, M284-, M379-, P78-, P95-. Please let me know if you decide this one is useful for your purposes and I will add the extra to the general fund. Regards Julie Frame Falk

I believe Aaron and Kenneth deserves a thank you for the effort they put into the M223 project. I noticed that ISOGG revised Hg I yesterday without at least adding L801 to the list of "SNPs under Investigation". I guess we have to get more people to test that SNP right away. :-) I'm I right if I assume that L812+ is turning out to be a segment of Roots group 1? Or are there more L812+ people outside the M223 project? H.Styri > From: Aaron Salles Torres [sallfertorr@yahoo.com] > Sent: 2011-12-21 18:10:34 MET > To: genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com, ISOGG@yahoogroups.com, y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] New M223 Tree Configuration > > [...] > > Resulting from our group effort, here is how the new M223 tree stands tonight: > > > 1- M223* (I2b1-X, I2b1-XX, Roots-X, Roots/L812-) > 1.1- L812 (Roots) > 1.1.1- L319 (Roots) > 1.2- L801* (Cont1, Cont1a, Cont1b, Cont2a, Cont2b/P95-) > 1.2.1- P95 (Cont2b) > 1.3- P78 (Cont3a) > 1.4- L623, L147.4 (Cont2c) > 1.5- M284* (Isles E) > 1.5.1-L126, > L137, L369 (Isles Limbo, Isles Sc) >

The SNP results for FTDNA Kit # 10677 (Y-search: PTHKK) reported L840+ This individual was previously L22+/P109+ Would it be possible to get a summary of the various results from the different individuals who recently tested for this SNP? FTDNA still has L840 as a subgroup of P109!?! I was under the impression that L840 had little value in further subdividing I1. Thanks!

L812 is so far positive for only one clade of Roots --- the clade with 8 at DYS438. So it is quite confined. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 7:50 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New M223 Tree Configuration L801 has had a ton of rest results. Problem is with ISOGG -----Original Message----- From: Haakon Styri Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 1:16 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New M223 Tree Configuration I believe Aaron and Kenneth deserves a thank you for the effort they put into the M223 project. I noticed that ISOGG revised Hg I yesterday without at least adding L801 to the list of "SNPs under Investigation". I guess we have to get more people to test that SNP right away. :-) I'm I right if I assume that L812+ is turning out to be a segment of Roots group 1? Or are there more L812+ people outside the M223 project? H.Styri > From: Aaron Salles Torres [sallfertorr@yahoo.com] > Sent: 2011-12-21 18:10:34 MET > To: genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com, ISOGG@yahoogroups.com, > y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] New M223 Tree Configuration > > [...] > > Resulting from our group effort, here is how the new M223 tree stands > tonight: > > > 1- M223* (I2b1-X, I2b1-XX, Roots-X, Roots/L812-) > 1.1- L812 (Roots) > 1.1.1- L319 (Roots) > 1.2- L801* (Cont1, Cont1a, Cont1b, Cont2a, Cont2b/P95-) > 1.2.1- P95 (Cont2b) > 1.3- P78 (Cont3a) > 1.4- L623, L147.4 (Cont2c) > 1.5- M284* (Isles E) > 1.5.1-L126, > L137, L369 (Isles Limbo, Isles Sc) > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

L801 has had a ton of rest results. Problem is with ISOGG -----Original Message----- From: Haakon Styri Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 1:16 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] New M223 Tree Configuration I believe Aaron and Kenneth deserves a thank you for the effort they put into the M223 project. I noticed that ISOGG revised Hg I yesterday without at least adding L801 to the list of "SNPs under Investigation". I guess we have to get more people to test that SNP right away. :-) I'm I right if I assume that L812+ is turning out to be a segment of Roots group 1? Or are there more L812+ people outside the M223 project? H.Styri > From: Aaron Salles Torres [sallfertorr@yahoo.com] > Sent: 2011-12-21 18:10:34 MET > To: genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com, ISOGG@yahoogroups.com, > y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com > Subject: [yDNAhgI] New M223 Tree Configuration > > [...] > > Resulting from our group effort, here is how the new M223 tree stands > tonight: > > > 1- M223* (I2b1-X, I2b1-XX, Roots-X, Roots/L812-) > 1.1- L812 (Roots) > 1.1.1- L319 (Roots) > 1.2- L801* (Cont1, Cont1a, Cont1b, Cont2a, Cont2b/P95-) > 1.2.1- P95 (Cont2b) > 1.3- P78 (Cont3a) > 1.4- L623, L147.4 (Cont2c) > 1.5- M284* (Isles E) > 1.5.1-L126, > L137, L369 (Isles Limbo, Isles Sc) > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Aaron, Ken says that kit 146456 is an outlier. Would it help to do a WTY with Nelson's DNA? If so I can pay for the half of the WTY Please let me know how to proceed if you think this will be beneficial. Belinda ----- Original Message ---- From: Aaron Salles Torres <sallfertorr@yahoo.com> To: genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com; ISOGG@yahoogroups.com; y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, December 21, 2011 5:10:34 PM Subject: [yDNAhgI] New M223 Tree Configuration Dear M223 Project Members, (with copies to FT DNA Customer Service, Thomas Krahn, Max Blankfeld, Bennett Greenspan and ISOGG, Genealogy-DNA and Y-DNA Haplogroup I mailing lists) After a new round of tests concluded tonight (12/20/2011) by Family Tree DNA, the M223 haplotree reveals itself to us in its new configuration. Our knowledge of the M223 haplogroup has probably never been this shaken with so many discoveries in such a short period of time. This "SNP revolution" would never have been made possible without the generous donations we have received toward our "Walk Through the Y" campaign. It would also never have been achieved without the cooperation of individual project members, who selflessly tested for these new SNP's as they were discovered, contributing to our general knowledge at their own private expense. These project members know who they are - their names can be found in the project donations page and in the M223 Y-DNA SNP results page as those who experimented with this new wave of SNP's. As we all enjoy the benefits of their generosity, it would be good to see other project members get involved as well so we can all equally share the costs of these research breakthroughs. Resulting from our group effort, here is how the new M223 tree stands tonight: 1- M223* (I2b1-X, I2b1-XX, Roots-X, Roots/L812-) 1.1- L812 (Roots) 1.1.1- L319 (Roots) 1.2- L801* (Cont1, Cont1a, Cont1b, Cont2a, Cont2b/P95-) 1.2.1- P95 (Cont2b) 1.3- P78 (Cont3a) 1.4- L623, L147.4 (Cont2c) 1.5- M284* (Isles E) 1.5.1-L126, L137, L369 (Isles Limbo, Isles Sc) As new SNP's were discovered in other areas of the I haplogroup as well, we have seen new nomenclature arise in the ISOGG 2011 Y-DNA tree for haplogroup I. We would all agree that diverging nomenclature can be extremely confusing. For example, M223 is now referred to as I2a2a by ISOGG, whereas it is called I2b1 by FT DNA. So, we hope FT DNA will expeditiously revise their I haplotree to reflect this new knowledge. In fact, SNP discoveries tend to become increasingly more frequent with the democratization of technology, so it would be useful to revise haplotree drafts on a more regular basis. The importance of revising haplotrees lies not only in the issue of conflicting nomenclature, but also in what is offered to the general public as part of the FT DNA "Deep Clade" tests. As we know, the current Deep Clade test offered to M223+ customers includes only the following SNP's: M284, L126/L137, M379, P78 and P95. There is very little knowledge to be gained by this outdated Deep Clade package, as results are highly predictable based on Y-STR (marker) values. For that reason, FT DNA now has a responsibility to all of us to include the new SNP's from the above haplotree in its M223 Deep Clade package as soon as possible: L801, L812, L319, L369, L623 and L147.4. We all hope the company will live by its commitment to its customers, so as to demonstrate its appreciation for our group efforts and continuous involvement. As we await these improvements, we should keep an eye out for a few Z series SNP's, which should be added to the FT DNA catalog in the near future. Among these SNP's, Z186 seems to be the most important, as it has the potential of being relevant to L801+ project members. A proposed draft by investigators of the 1,000 Genomes Project may be found here: http://www.box.com/shared/0ohfz417df8cvtc91jdh . Our M223 research cannot stop. We feel encouraged by the numerous SNP discoveries, which were made possible by our participation in the WTY program during the year of 2011. For that reason, we hope to continue exploring the possibilities offered by this program during the year of 2012. As you know, we rely on the generosity of our project members to make WTY possible. If you would like to make donations to our WTY fund, you may do so here: http://bit.ly/I2b1WTY . Indeed, at the moment, the project is looking for additional volunteers within the Cont subgroup of M223 (L801+) to participate in the Walk through the Y program (WTY). The project has enough funds to pay for half the cost of one exam ($350), so the participant would cover the remaining amount. If you are interested in participating in the program, please reply with your kit number. May the year of 2012 bring as much progress to our M223 research as the year that we now lock with golden keys*. Best regards, Aaron Torres M223 Project Administrator *A Portuguese Language expression, which means to conclude something in which one has had good fortune. Note: You may notice that SNP L380 does not appear on the above tree. That is because, at the same time that we discover new, useful SNP's, we are confronted with some SNP's that are a little more ambiguous and less reliable. L380 seems to be one of those. According to Dr. Krahn, responsible for the WTY program: "This is a fairly confusing marker because it is close to the Yp pseudoautosomal region and it probably recombines with the X chromosome more often than we like it." Based on tests taken by our project members, we learned that the occurrence of L380 in two of our WTY participants (kits 150778/Roots and 69631/Cont2a) was a mere coincidence due to X/Y recombination, and not a result of shared ancestry. As such, L380 may not be useful to our M223 research. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ordered Z58,Z63 and Z131 today, Batch 444 Results by 2/6/2012 Looking forward to seeing these results..... Peter Golden Kit 84232 y-Search HWKFT _______________________________________________________________________________ From: "Kenneth Nordtvedt" <knordtvedt@bresnan.net> Subject: [yDNAhgI] I1xL22 and the new Z snps Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 18:20:54 -0700 So far the Z series snps from 1000 Genomes have divided I1xL22 into five divisions: 1) Z58+ Z140+ 2) Z58+ 3) Z58+ Z139+ 4) Z63+ 5) negative for all Z snps So far the branch Z131+ claimed by 1000 Genomes has not bee found. Robust hunks of I1xL22 have fallen in each category.  All these branch divisions seem to have happened more than 3000 years ago. The previously known clades of I1xL22 go cleanly with the different snp tagged branches.  Some new superclades are emerging from the mist. I1-ASgenerics seem to be trickling along with each division.  There are a number of additional Z series snps for the I1xL22 sector which could divide things even more, but FTDNA has not put them in their catalog. Testing has been on the light side; generics probably should do more testing. See “tree for I1” at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net

I have a Cont1 member who would likely be willing to take the WTY if I subsidized him, which I would be willing to do. He's #70816, a RAZEE in my Rasey project. He's already proven to be L801+ (and L380-). http://www.familytreedna.com/public/rasey/default.aspx?section=yresult s My Cont2a RASEY #69631 (L801+ L380+) turned out to be good luck for us, maybe my Cont1 RAZEE will be, too. Diana > From: Aaron Salles Torres > Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 12:11 PM > <snip> > > Indeed, at the moment, the project is looking for > additional volunteers > within the Cont subgroup of M223 (L801+) to participate in the Walk > through the Y program (WTY). The project has enough funds to pay for > half the > cost of one exam ($350), so the participant would cover the > remaining > amount. If you are interested in participating in the program, > please reply with your kit number. > <snip>

Dear M223 Project Members, (with copies to FT DNA Customer Service, Thomas Krahn, Max Blankfeld, Bennett Greenspan and ISOGG, Genealogy-DNA and Y-DNA Haplogroup I mailing lists) After a new round of tests concluded tonight (12/20/2011) by Family Tree DNA, the M223 haplotree reveals itself to us in its new configuration. Our knowledge of the M223 haplogroup has probably never been this shaken with so many discoveries in such a short period of time. This "SNP revolution" would never have been made possible without the generous donations we have received toward our "Walk Through the Y" campaign. It would also never have been achieved without the cooperation of individual project members, who selflessly tested for these new SNP's as they were discovered, contributing to our general knowledge at their own private expense. These project members know who they are - their names can be found in the project donations page and in the M223 Y-DNA SNP results page as those who experimented with this new wave of SNP's. As we all enjoy the benefits of their generosity, it would be good to see other project members get involved as well so we can all equally share the costs of these research breakthroughs. Resulting from our group effort, here is how the new M223 tree stands tonight: 1- M223* (I2b1-X, I2b1-XX, Roots-X, Roots/L812-) 1.1- L812 (Roots) 1.1.1- L319 (Roots) 1.2- L801* (Cont1, Cont1a, Cont1b, Cont2a, Cont2b/P95-) 1.2.1- P95 (Cont2b) 1.3- P78 (Cont3a) 1.4- L623, L147.4 (Cont2c) 1.5- M284* (Isles E) 1.5.1-L126, L137, L369 (Isles Limbo, Isles Sc) As new SNP's were discovered in other areas of the I haplogroup as well, we have seen new nomenclature arise in the ISOGG 2011 Y-DNA tree for haplogroup I. We would all agree that diverging nomenclature can be extremely confusing. For example, M223 is now referred to as I2a2a by ISOGG, whereas it is called I2b1 by FT DNA. So, we hope FT DNA will expeditiously revise their I haplotree to reflect this new knowledge. In fact, SNP discoveries tend to become increasingly more frequent with the democratization of technology, so it would be useful to revise haplotree drafts on a more regular basis. The importance of revising haplotrees lies not only in the issue of conflicting nomenclature, but also in what is offered to the general public as part of the FT DNA "Deep Clade" tests. As we know, the current Deep Clade test offered to M223+ customers includes only the following SNP's: M284, L126/L137, M379, P78 and P95. There is very little knowledge to be gained by this outdated Deep Clade package, as results are highly predictable based on Y-STR (marker) values. For that reason, FT DNA now has a responsibility to all of us to include the new SNP's from the above haplotree in its M223 Deep Clade package as soon as possible: L801, L812, L319, L369, L623 and L147.4. We all hope the company will live by its commitment to its customers, so as to demonstrate its appreciation for our group efforts and continuous involvement. As we await these improvements, we should keep an eye out for a few Z series SNP's, which should be added to the FT DNA catalog in the near future. Among these SNP's, Z186 seems to be the most important, as it has the potential of being relevant to L801+ project members. A proposed draft by investigators of the 1,000 Genomes Project may be found here: http://www.box.com/shared/0ohfz417df8cvtc91jdh . Our M223 research cannot stop. We feel encouraged by the numerous SNP discoveries, which were made possible by our participation in the WTY program during the year of 2011. For that reason, we hope to continue exploring the possibilities offered by this program during the year of 2012. As you know, we rely on the generosity of our project members to make WTY possible. If you would like to make donations to our WTY fund, you may do so here: http://bit.ly/I2b1WTY . Indeed, at the moment, the project is looking for additional volunteers within the Cont subgroup of M223 (L801+) to participate in the Walk through the Y program (WTY). The project has enough funds to pay for half the cost of one exam ($350), so the participant would cover the remaining amount. If you are interested in participating in the program, please reply with your kit number. May the year of 2012 bring as much progress to our M223 research as the year that we now lock with golden keys*. Best regards, Aaron Torres M223 Project Administrator *A Portuguese Language expression, which means to conclude something in which one has had good fortune. Note: You may notice that SNP L380 does not appear on the above tree. That is because, at the same time that we discover new, useful SNP's, we are confronted with some SNP's that are a little more ambiguous and less reliable. L380 seems to be one of those. According to Dr. Krahn, responsible for the WTY program: "This is a fairly confusing marker because it is close to the Yp pseudoautosomal region and it probably recombines with the X chromosome more often than we like it." Based on tests taken by our project members, we learned that the occurrence of L380 in two of our WTY participants (kits 150778/Roots and 69631/Cont2a) was a mere coincidence due to X/Y recombination, and not a result of shared ancestry. As such, L380 may not be useful to our M223 research.

Have ordered Z60 for Frame Kit 64529, YSearch: X7P3B (I1-AS Maverick) Julie Frame Falk -----Original Message----- From: Roy Silfven Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 2:22 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Z60 I just ordered Z60 from FTDNA after I found it in their catalog this morning. The other SNPs of interest, Z61, Z62, Z73, Z141, DF29, Z382 do not yet appear in the ZNP catalog. Roy Silfven rsilfven@bendcable.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

So far the Z series snps from 1000 Genomes have divided I1xL22 into five divisions: 1) Z58+ Z140+ 2) Z58+ 3) Z58+ Z139+ 4) Z63+ 5) negative for all Z snps So far the branch Z131+ claimed by 1000 Genomes has not bee found. Robust hunks of I1xL22 have fallen in each category. All these branch divisions seem to have happened more than 3000 years ago. The previously known clades of I1xL22 go cleanly with the different snp tagged branches. Some new superclades are emerging from the mist. I1-ASgenerics seem to be trickling along with each division. There are a number of additional Z series snps for the I1xL22 sector which could divide things even more, but FTDNA has not put them in their catalog. Testing has been on the light side; generics probably should do more testing. See “tree for I1” at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net

Those Z139+ as well should probably not rush out to do Z60; A couple folks (including myself) Z139+ have already done Z59 and were found Z59-; Z59 is supposed to be between Z58 and Z60 on a branch parallel to the branch going to Z139/Z138. -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 12:13 PM To: genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com Subject: Fw: [yDNAhgI] Z60 and I1 Z58+ FTDNA is dribbling out the Z series snps for I1xL22 at a snail’s pace. I don’t know why....? Who should do Z60? It is downstream of Z58 and Z59. Z58+ folks are showing up both Z140+ and Z140- Both initially should do Z60. Z140 is placed even further downstream from Z60 If you did Z59, it is between Z58 and Z60 on the y tree according to 1000 Genomes. So advice would be the same. Do Z60. If you are Z63+ and/or Z58- I would say doing Z60 is much lower priority and a long shot to being anything but ancestral (negative). But 1000 Genomes 15 dna samples or so and the I1xL22 tree they built from those samples has been off the mark as well as on the mark. Those limited samples missed the very large clades which have turned out negative for all three entry level snps --- Z58, Z63, Z131. The Z58- Z63- Z131- population takes in a number of solid clades. And although 1000 Genomes claims they had a couple Z131+ among their samples, testing for Z131 at FTDNA has turned up none yet. A number of other snps for I1 have not been put into the FTDNA catalog --- DF29, Z73, Z141 seem most significant ones to me, but there are also z61 and z62. So we wait. See “Tree for I1” at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net for my latest interpretation of the Z series results known up to today and the relationships to the earlier identified clades. Ken ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

FTDNA is dribbling out the Z series snps for I1xL22 at a snail’s pace. I don’t know why....? Who should do Z60? It is downstream of Z58 and Z59. Z58+ folks are showing up both Z140+ and Z140- Both initially should do Z60. Z140 is placed even further downstream from Z60 If you did Z59, it is between Z58 and Z60 on the y tree according to 1000 Genomes. So advice would be the same. Do Z60. If you are Z63+ and/or Z58- I would say doing Z60 is much lower priority and a long shot to being anything but ancestral (negative). But 1000 Genomes 15 dna samples or so and the I1xL22 tree they built from those samples has been off the mark as well as on the mark. Those limited samples missed the very large clades which have turned out negative for all three entry level snps --- Z58, Z63, Z131. The Z58- Z63- Z131- population takes in a number of solid clades. And although 1000 Genomes claims they had a couple Z131+ among their samples, testing for Z131 at FTDNA has turned up none yet. A number of other snps for I1 have not been put into the FTDNA catalog --- DF29, Z73, Z141 seem most significant ones to me, but there are also z61 and z62. So we wait. See “Tree for I1” at http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net for my latest interpretation of the Z series results known up to today and the relationships to the earlier identified clades. Ken

My AS2 CORBIN (#143803) is testing Z58, Z138, and Z139 (Batch 442, results expected 1/25). He belongs to the yDNA-Hap I project, so as co-admin, you'll see his results when they come in. Diana > From: Kenneth Nordtvedt > Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 4:43 PM > > Z138+ for AS2 supports the other AS2 found Z58+ > and Z139+ I don't think there is anything more > for you to test right now. But a couple more > AS2 people confirming the Z138/139 branch would > be good.

Aw, waah, I just ordered a bunch of markers on Sunday, I'll have to call tomorrow and try to get it added to our order. Between us, my brother's nonsurname Y DNA match and we ordered all the markers available, one per pair, except for Z60, of course. Dora -----Original Message----- From: y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:y-dna-haplogroup-i-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Roy Silfven Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 9:23 AM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: [yDNAhgI] Z60 I just ordered Z60 from FTDNA after I found it in their catalog this morning. The other SNPs of interest, Z61, Z62, Z73, Z141, DF29, Z382 do not yet appear in the ZNP catalog. Roy Silfven rsilfven@bendcable.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Z138+ for AS2 supports the other AS2 found Z58+ and Z139+ I don't think there is anything more for you to test right now. But a couple more AS2 people confirming the Z138/139 branch would be good. -----Original Message----- From: Ray Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 1:19 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] AS2 - Z138+ Hi I have not tested for Z58 or Z139 but going by Ken's chart for I1 can I assume I would test positive for these or should I test to see what results I would get. Is there any thing else I could test for. Ray Jenkins I1-M253- AS2 Z138+ Ysearch AETEN -------Original Message------- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Date: 16/12/2011 5:29:59 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] AS2 - Z138+ My interpretation, based on my old tmrca with AS2, and the young tmrca of AS2 itself, is that both lines after parting ways simply diverged as they will. I could not suggest yet what the haplotypes looked like at the beginning of Z139+. I see some commonalities among AS2, your haplotype, mine.... but it is not much to hang a hat on. -----Original Message----- From: owodom@mail.utexas.edu Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:07 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] AS2 - Z138+ Ray, Do I interpret your message correctly that you are I1-AS2 and are Z58+, Z139+, and Z138+? If so, that puts you (I1-AS2)and Ken and me (I1-AS-generic) in the same clade, as judged by SNPs. Do you agree, Ken? Could this mean that the Y-STR pattern of I1-AS2 is more similar to the pattern of our common ancestor, but that the Y-STR pattern of some of us I1-AS-generics has mutated enough that we can no longer be recognized by STRs but only by SNPs? Quoting Ray <rjenkins@arjayindustries.com>: > Hi > My Result is in and I am Z138+ for FTDNA kit #186150 > Ysearch AETEN > > Ray Jenkins > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Recently, on the Internet some articles were published on a warriors cemetery of Nordic provenance newly discovered in Central Poland near the village Bodzia: <http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/12/pictures/111216-warrior-gra ves-polish-viking-treasure-science/> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/12/pictures/111216-warrior-grav es-polish-viking-treasure-science/ <http://antiquity.ac.uk/projgall/buko330/> http://antiquity.ac.uk/projgall/buko330/ Some archeologists link this cemetery in Bodzia to Varangians, and especially to the events of 1018, when the Grand Duke of Kiev, Sviatopelk faced by a rebellion in his state has escaped to his father in law, the King of Poland, Boleslaus the Brave. He was killed in a battle on the way to Poland, but his widow and son protected by his Varangian guard detachment arrived to Poland. The graves in Bodzia could be of this Varangian guard detachment. However, in Northern and Central Poland were already earlier discovered several cemeteries with graves of Nordic warriors. Archeologists link Bodzia with Varangians, but other cemeteries of this kind are rather linked to warriors of Danish origin. All of them are dated for the time after the mid of the Xth century, just after the Polish State was formed. Polish archeologists are now very interested in genetic tests of warriors buried at these cemeteries.

Hi I have not tested for Z58 or Z139 but going by Ken's chart for I1 can I assume I would test positive for these or should I test to see what results I would get. Is there any thing else I could test for. Ray Jenkins I1-M253- AS2 Z138+ Ysearch AETEN -------Original Message------- From: Kenneth Nordtvedt Date: 16/12/2011 5:29:59 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] AS2 - Z138+ My interpretation, based on my old tmrca with AS2, and the young tmrca of AS2 itself, is that both lines after parting ways simply diverged as they will. I could not suggest yet what the haplotypes looked like at the beginning of Z139+. I see some commonalities among AS2, your haplotype, mine.... but it is not much to hang a hat on. -----Original Message----- From: owodom@mail.utexas.edu Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 6:07 PM To: y-dna-haplogroup-i@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [yDNAhgI] AS2 - Z138+ Ray, Do I interpret your message correctly that you are I1-AS2 and are Z58+, Z139+, and Z138+? If so, that puts you (I1-AS2)and Ken and me (I1-AS-generic) in the same clade, as judged by SNPs. Do you agree, Ken? Could this mean that the Y-STR pattern of I1-AS2 is more similar to the pattern of our common ancestor, but that the Y-STR pattern of some of us I1-AS-generics has mutated enough that we can no longer be recognized by STRs but only by SNPs? Quoting Ray <rjenkins@arjayindustries.com>: > Hi > My Result is in and I am Z138+ for FTDNA kit #186150 > Ysearch AETEN > > Ray Jenkins > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to Y-DNA-HAPLOGROUP-I-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I just ordered Z60 from FTDNA after I found it in their catalog this morning. The other SNPs of interest, Z61, Z62, Z73, Z141, DF29, Z382 do not yet appear in the ZNP catalog. Roy Silfven rsilfven@bendcable.com

Obed ~ You asked: "Roy, What is your current haplogroup assignment by STR classification?" I should have added my STR status (sorry I didn't). It is AS9b (AS16 per Ken). Other details, as said, are KIT 154151, Y- Search MUZGY. The AS16 per Ken refers to my group who are all 16 at DYS19 (I believe this is the rational). There maybe other STR markers peculiar for AS9b (AS16) too. It would be intriguing if there turned out to be a SNP for this bunch but that seems rather pie in the sky and likely shows my ignorance. I have no other motive for my readiness to order a SNP test other than being 70 and wanting to know what remains hidden behind the genes and also being able to pay for the tests. I check the FTDNA catalog daily for Z60, Z61, Z63, Z382, Z141, and DF29 although honestly I don't know which is a good choice for me to order. If any one of these became available, I'd likely order it out of anxiety. Ken might have an idea of what would be a good fit but I also think it is probably a moving target as the SNP test results come in making the SNP chart more defined. > Z59+ Z58+ P38+ P212+ M253+ L578+ L41+ Z63- Z140- Z139- Z138- Z131- > P259- P109- M72- M438- M227- M21- L803- L802- L573- L346- L344- L338- > L22- L211- L188- L161- Best, Roy Roy Silfven rsilfven@bendcable.com